German commando attack on the US, Canada Alaska (1 Viewer)

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I am asking you to look at their most glorious moments Parsifal, not the number of times they came into firefights. The LRDG's most glorious moments were against the Italians.

Moreover, in their efforts to emulate the LRDG, it was the italians who appeared to show a greater understanding of how to put it all together when compared to those of the germans. The operations of their "Sahariano Company" showed signs of promise more advanced than that of the germans, whose efforts and concepts were not nearly as well developed in this specialized field.

That is not true Parsifal, the Germans had the Fallschirmjäger Brigade Ramcke, an elite combat unit which proved highly successful during the African campaign, often making a complete fool of the Commenwealth forces. One of its duties was also to quickly intercept the LRDG during their raids.
 
I am asking you to look at their most glorious moments Parsifal, not the number of times they came into firefights. The LRDG's most glorious moments were against the Italians.

Most glorious moments is not the relevant issue. The relevant issue is the most effective moments. They were most effective when they undertook both an insertion AND extraction without being detected. If that occurred (and that was the objective most of the time, the LRDG could classify the operation as a success. If they were detected at any point, they could fight, but the mission was usually busted. And in those circumstances the LRDGs were usually better than the italians, so in that sense you are right. But you are definately missing the point....Special Forces are designed to operate on a stelth basis rather than a "shoot em up" basis. The fact that the LRDGs could get into, and then out of enemy held bases with a minimum of interference is an amazing feat, not that they could fight better or worse than their opposition

That is not true Parsifal, the Germans had the Fallschirmjäger Brigade Ramcke, an elite combat unit which proved highly successful during the African campaign, often making a complete fool of the Commenwealth forces. One of its duties was also to quickly intercept the LRDG during their raids.

I know of the fighting qualities of the Ramcke Brigade, although I dont think they ever made fools of anyone. If they did, Rommel certainly didnt think so. Rommel thought the best Infantry in the deseert was the Australians incidentally, not the Ramcke outfit.

However, even this misses the point. As you say, Ramcke was a combat unit, not a Special Forces unit. Ramcke was not designed, trained or equipped for deep penetration behind the lines sabotage intell gathering etc work of the type the LRDGs undertook. The only formations capable of this type of work on the German side were the four companies of the Brandenburgers assigned to the theatre. These guys did not perform well in their intended role (except on a few occasions ), for a number of reasons, but these reasons can all be linked back to the systemic problem that existed in the Abwehr at the time, namely poor leadership, and co-ordination
 
Lets hear Sorens plans for a commando attack on the Panama Canal, followed by a small anti-shipping campaign on the Gulf side of the canal.

Maybe even couple it with an IJN attack on the Pacific side..
 
Most glorious moments is not the relevant issue. The relevant issue is the most effective moments. They were most effective when they undertook both an insertion AND extraction without being detected. If that occurred (and that was the objective most of the time, the LRDG could classify the operation as a success. If they were detected at any point, they could fight, but the mission was usually busted. And in those circumstances the LRDGs were usually better than the italians, so in that sense you are right. But you are definately missing the point....Special Forces are designed to operate on a stelth basis rather than a "shoot em up" basis. The fact that the LRDGs could get into, and then out of enemy held bases with a minimum of interference is an amazing feat, not that they could fight better or worse than their opposition

Which is all I was saying Parsifal. Ofcourse not being detected was the prime goal, that's a no brainer even for an amateur. The LRDG was a small unit and thus getting into a firefight was potentially disasterous.

I know of the fighting qualities of the Ramcke Brigade, although I dont think they ever made fools of anyone.

They made fools out of the British;
During the Second battle of El Alamein. the brigade covered Rommel's withdrawal and was given up for lost once it was encircled by Commonwealth forces. Despite being cut off, the brigade managed to to turn initial defeat into a moment of complete embarrassment for the British when they captured a convoy without firing a shot on the night of 6/7 November 1942. The Brigade then drove the entire captured convoy back to German lines complete with food, fuel and ammunition meant to supply a Commonwealth Armored division. The Brigade continued to use the captured vehicles until there eventual withdrawal from North Afrika.

If they did, Rommel certainly didnt think so. Rommel thought the best Infantry in the deseert was the Australians incidentally, not the Ramcke outfit.

I doubt that Parsifal, got a source ?
 
I doubt that Parsifal, got a source ?[/QUOTE]

will forward the source from home. Sys wants you to finish your submission for the panama canal raid, so I will hold off from other replies until then
 
I am home now, The sources are "Where the Australians Fought_ The Encyclopedia Of Australian Battlefields", Chris Coulthard, Allen Unwin, 1988; "Panzer! Tank Warfare 1939-45", Nigel Cawthorne, Arcturus Publishing 2003. Also "Tobruk 1941" Peter Cochrane Australian Broadcasting Comission 2001.

There are a number of variations to the basic quote, but that contained in wiki is probably the most generic. He is reported as saying "If I had to take hell, I would use the Australians to take it and the New Zealanders to hold it".

Other quotes from Rommel

Sweat saves blood, blood saves lives, and brains save both
would be rather more happy had he given me one more division
.
Comment after Hitler made him a Field Marshal
The German soldier astonished the world, the Italian Bersagliere astonished the German soldier.
I didn't die nor win.

Referred to the order "either win or die trying!" of Hitler during the retreat of the campaigning in North Africa.
For me, soldiers are all equal. Those black people wore your same uniform, fought on your side, and so you will be in the same jail.
Said to a captured South African white officer that asked to be put in a different jail from the one with black soldiers.
Gentlemen, you have fought like lions and been led by donkeys.
Said to captured British officers after Tobruk
Good soldiers, bad officers; but remember that without them we wouldn't have civilization.
Referred to Italians.
 
Soren

Actually, we are both wrong. The LRDG was at its best when it was not attacking or being attacked directly.

Hello parsifal,

The Brandenburg unit existed before 1943 and fulfilled many operations during the early stages of Barbarossa, by e.g. posing as Russians in order to take control of vital bridges.
On 1.4.1943 the Sonderverband (Special Unit Brandenburg was renamed into Division Brandenburg with 5 Regiments.

BTW, this is the official order regarding the initial setting up of SS Jagdverbaende:
OKH/GenStdH/Org.Abt. I/19280/44 g.Kdos. v. 13.9.1944, so before September 1944 there were no Jagdverbaende.

I am not aware about any reliable sources that document about members of the Brandenburg unit having taken part in the raid Gran Sasso.

LRDP, Commandos or LRDP and Combat performance.

Let me put it this way: The British were the first ones to define a unit and specific tasks of this unit then termed commandos. The LRDP was not a commando unit but a recon unit as already forwarded, which was sometimes also ordered commando raids (not a wise decision) but in majority their action was based on recon.

Today's Bundeswehr has the Fernspaeher which are the core group of the KSK unit. The training unit is still based at the International Long Range Recon Patrol School (ILRRPS) since 2003 termed AusbZSpezlOp (Training school for special operations).
It is the equivalent to the British SAS section SRR- Special Reconnaiccance Regiment.

These units are speciffically instructed and trained not to engage in combat but to remain hidden. These members are far to valuable to be "wasted" in a commando raid. This specific mission design was unfortunatly not accepted by the cofounders of the ILRRPS – Great Britain - which in the end resulted in the withdrawal of the SAS from the ILRRPS.

It was then in 2005 that the British agreed to this mission spectrum and training and as such instituted the SRR within the SAS.

Regards
Kruska
 
Found this while posting todays events in the Daily thread. From U-Boat.net...

"'U-200' (Type IXD2) was sunk southwest of Iceland by 2 depth charges from a British Liberator aircraft (Sqdn. 120/H). 67 dead (all crew lost). The dead included 7 members from the German special force "Brandenburg" unit."
 
Good find Njaco.

I was also thinking of a possible attack on the large airport in Fairbanks, it was used as the depature point from which Lend Lease a/c and supplies went to the USSR (Hence the layout of access route on the map), the Alsib air route. A team of 25 commandos could cause a lot of damage if landed there.
 
Good find Njaco.

I was also thinking of a possible attack on the large airport in Fairbanks, it was used as the depature point from which Lend Lease a/c and supplies went to the USSR (Hence the layout of access route on the map), the Alsib air route. A team of 25 commandos could cause a lot of damage if landed there.

And what type of impact on the war would it have?
 
Back to the 25 commando's again I see.


And so ? Still ignorant to the fact that a Type IXD easily could carry along 30 extra men ??

An attack on the airport at Fairbanks wouldn't require 75 men, infact 10 would be enough.
 
And what type of impact on the war would it have?

What impact on the war did Market Garden have ? Come on syscom...

Destroying lots of material and damaging the airfield would delay shipments to the east and require the whole area to be strenghtened in security.
 
German commando attack on the US, Canada possibly Alaska

The time is early 1942 and Amerika recently entered the war, and so to sabotage its war effort by striking fear into the hearts of the civilian population Germany is planning a commando raid on the US Canada and perhaps even a small town in Alaska just to demonstrate their abilities.

A further purpose of the mission is to be putting up weather stations and radio transmitters, allowing Germany to monitor in some degree what's going on in the country.

Question is how would they do it? How effective would it be ? How long would it last ? Do the commandos get extracted or escape the countries somehow after their attack, or do they fight to the death, or perhaps even let themselves capture ? Also what equipment would be needed, and what would be the most effective ?

Looking forward to hear your thoughts.

they used the u-boats for block the suply of allies in atlantic. but not very effective in the end.

germany doesnt have any kind of "comandos" like that, but they had some spys over the american territory. but that would be useless, i believe "comandos" just goes against the germanic war philosophy in ww2. maybe they could lauch a v1 or v2 like from a u-boat or other ship from kriegsmarine. but i doubt, because their main military targets was revenge against brits and french forcing both to sign a cease-fire and dizimate the slavians from the east-europe who they believed was an inferior race.

the only enemy hitler thoughts was dangerous was the britons. he said once, the americans fight as childrens and the russians was an inferior race wich means germans should not find too much resistance in anihilate the slavians, but in his opinion, the english will fight and resist as lions. he was wrong about the americans and russians, but very right about the britons ! besides the disaster of dunkerke, the britons made an heroic resistence in the skies of the islands. also, polaks, frenches and many others helped in those effort.
 
Were there any 25 man commando attacks that did do damage from any country..??? ..I know the Germans did get Mussolini freed... Soren you under estimate the US army as the Germans did in WW2...
 
What impact on the war did Market Garden have ? Come on syscom...

Destroying lots of material and damaging the airfield would delay shipments to the east and require the whole area to be strenghtened in security.

25 commando's would knock out Fairbanks for a few days. Big deal.

It would have no impact on the AAF and USN.
 
and so far we have a maximum carrying capacity of just 7 men in the biggest boat in the german Navy, which was not available until the end of 1942, at the earliest. On that basis it will require 4 boats to be taken out of the line for something like ten weeks for a minor raid unlikely to have any impact on the war.

U-Boat s were expensive pieces of hardware, and their job was to sink ships. Having them swan around dropping off agents for hair brained schemes would be a total waste of time, and handing a minor victory on a plate to the Allies, because the boats are not doing what they should be.....which is to sink ships
 
Were there any 25 man commando attacks that did do damage from any country..??? ..I know the Germans did get Mussolini freed... Soren you under estimate the US army as the Germans did in WW2...

yeah, rssss i dint saw the situation by that point rssssssss

should be 25 german chuck norris lolllllll

:lol:
 
And so ? Still ignorant to the fact that a Type IXD easily could carry along 30 extra men ??

An attack on the airport at Fairbanks wouldn't require 75 men, infact 10 would be enough.

Now your increasing it to 30, it gets better and better.
 

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