German commando attack on the US, Canada Alaska (1 Viewer)

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This may be of interest its the forward torpedo room of U570, a type VII submarine with the spare torpedo's.
The torpedo's are under the false wooden deck that you can see and space is almost zero.

You have to doff your hats to men who could live in these condtions.
 

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Soren, all evidence shows that the NW passage was not possible for any navy in WW2. And even if the KM was hell bent in doing it, there was absolutely nothing in Alaska worth attacking.

Stick to potential commando raids in the Gulf of Mexico. hey, even have your soldiers hijack a commercial ship and use it for raids.
 
What passage are we talking about Juha ? The one running along Russia or the one accessed via the Labrador sea ?
 
Soren, all evidence shows that the NW passage was not possible for any navy in WW2. And even if the KM was hell bent in doing it, there was absolutely nothing in Alaska worth attacking.

Stick to potential commando raids in the Gulf of Mexico. hey, even have your soldiers hijack a commercial ship and use it for raids.

Rgr that Syscom3 but right now it's is about wether it was possible to reach Alaska by going north. I believe it is.
 
NE Passage as the name says is along the northern coast of Russia.
NW Passage as the name says through Labrador Sea or whatever between islands N of Canada's mainland.

Juha
 
And why would the North East coast not be possible ? The goal is to reach the Bering strait.
 
Heh Soren!
If you know something on Arctic you would know that in 40s You would need a help by Soviet ice-brakers to travel NE Passage during the most favourable time, in late summer. I doubt that Soviet would let in 42 even one of their ice-breakers to help a German U-boat to do the passage, my bet is that they would give Germans a couple of bombs/depth-charges/shells instead. And as I wrote earlier even before the worst, ice-wise, part of passage the combination of lack of darkness, narrow area between coast and ice and shallowness of sea made the area very unhealthy to U-boats.

Juha

Juha
 
Well in that case I was also thinking of the Panama Canal, that would cut off quite abit of time to reach Alaska.

Is the entire NE region packed with ice in the summer ? No, I seem to recall it being quite passable. Sure there was more day light, but what problem is that ? Are there Allied patrols in the area ?

You'd need to run along the Russian coast, there being possible icepacks to navigate through between the Kara Lapta sea..
 
Not entire Passage but substantial stretches of it, German Disguised Merchant Cruiser Komet needed help of two big Soviet ice-breakers, Lenin and Stalin, to get over the worst stretch in late summer 1940 and a help of an another at another bad stretch and even with help the journey took 2 months.

Soviet patrolled in the area and the lack of darkness means that you would need to recharge your batteries in conditions of reasonable visibility, not a good position to be spotted in narrow and shallow seas.

Juha
 
Soren, in 1939, the KM was blocked from any type of transit across the Panama Canal.

perhaps he was thinking of sneaking in underneath a cargo ship?


Well in that case I was also thinking of the Panama Canal, that would cut off quite abit of time to reach Alaska.

Is the entire NE region packed with ice in the summer ? No, I seem to recall it being quite passable. Sure there was more day light, but what problem is that ? Are there Allied patrols in the area ?

You'd need to run along the Russian coast, there being possible icepacks to navigate through between the Kara Lapta sea..

I know that in WWII the NW passage is pretty much locked in with ice, and the NE would be too.

Also remember that if the time of the passage is from Nov 1941- Feb 1942 it will be the northern winter, so temps will be -40 or colder, darkness 24 hours per day above the Arctic circle, + the ice will be the thickest.

IIRC the passage is semi passable in July/August, but it would be awfully late to begin ops in the Pacific.
 
Well sneaking in directly under a cargo ship wasn't really necessary, you'd just need to pass through when there's already a lot of traffic.

I'm still not convinced that the northern route is implausible though, the Russians didn't patrol those areas very much, and a Uboat could certainly cross the only "dangerous" section between the Kara Lapta sea without any trouble. Once past there it would be a fast run through the Bering strait and over to Alaska's south eastern coast.
 
Soren
with that level of arguments, what can I say!
Hopefully your imaginary captain chose Panama, crew or at least part of it would have had much better chances in US than in USSR PoW camp.

Juha
 
How thick is the ice packs between the Lapta Kara sea in the summer months Juha ? And how spread is it ? Really.

I really see little trouble for a U-boat as it could run on the surface until the ice packs get too compacted and then dive under them to emerge up again when on the other side. Heck the ice packs might be so spread out that you could easily navigate through them on the surface.

Today Uboats just go straight underneath the ice, but they can also stay submerged for nearly an unlimited amount of time, and they can emerge through 7m thick ice. So there's a difference, but they also operate in the toughest areas of arctic ocean.
 
How thick is the ice packs between the Lapta Kara sea in the summer months Juha ? And how spread is it ? Really.

I really see little trouble for a U-boat as it could run on the surface until the ice packs get too compacted and then dive under them to emerge up again when on the other side. Heck the ice packs might be so spread out that you could easily navigate through them on the surface.

Today Uboats just go straight underneath the ice, but they can also stay submerged for nearly an unlimited amount of time, and they can emerge through 7m thick ice. So there's a difference, but they also operate in the toughest areas of arctic ocean.
Fine idea if you only knew how deep the water was it might work and where the coast was as this was a very uncharted area
 
Well the U-boat was equipped with an instant depth measuring device, sonar.

Also remember the section between the Lapta Kara sea which needs be crossed is rather close to the Russian northern coast, where the icepacks are very scattered and thin.
 
Gonna stir the pot alittle: May have found a tempting target.

from May 1990 issue of World War II magazine by John H. Loux;

"More than 90% of all small arms cartridge cases the United States used during World War II were processed through equipment designed and built by a single, small company in the sleepy town of Salem, Ohio. The size of these cartridges ranged from the standard .30 and .50 caliber to the 20 mm ammunition used in the guns of fighting aircraft.....Sam Keener was the sole owner and undisputed boss of Salem Engineering Company, a small cog in the overall war effort, to be sure. But during each of those World War II years when everything seemed crucial - and often was - his small company provided manufacturing equipment for war materials worth more than $11 million - thats more than $50 million all told, no small sum by 1940's standards."

Thought it might be a tempting target.
 
Interesting Njaco. That might very well be a worthwhile target.

Btw, I'd like to point out that German Uboats operated successfully under the ice in the Gulf of St.Lawrence.
 
Interesting Njaco. That might very well be a worthwhile target.

Btw, I'd like to point out that German Uboats operated successfully under the ice in the Gulf of St.Lawrence.

They operated between May and November sinking 18 vessels in that period. They were then withdrawn due to the risk at Donitz personal order. 18 vessels in 7 months isn't massive.

Also this period is outside the main Ice season, with the possible exception of May and November in a bad winter. It varies year by year but in this period it is normally ice free with the exception of icebergs which are always a hazard. They would not have operated 'under ice'
 
They operated between May and November sinking 18 vessels in that period. They were then withdrawn due to the risk at Donitz personal order. 18 vessels in 7 months isn't massive.

Also this period is outside the main Ice season, with the possible exception of May and November in a bad winter. It varies year by year but in this period it is normally ice free with the exception of icebergs which are always a hazard. They would not have operated 'under ice'

That's funny considering what is written about it Glider. The German Uboats apparently DID operate UNDER the ice and enjoyed considerable success.
 

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