Germans demand apology for allied bombing raids

Originally Posted by Medvedya

An easy comment to make in a democratic country.

Germany was a democratic country. They decided to vote away their democracy.

[Medvedya]

Doesn't matter - the point is, if you're standing in a Bier-Haus and every man-jack in there is bawling out 'Tomorrow Belongs to Me' are you suddenly going to stand up on a table and heckle them? I doubt it.

Apart from anything else, if your country is going down the toilet, and somebody is offering stability and prosperity for all, wouldn't you be up for that? You're forgetting the importance of hindsight.

Originally Posted by Medvedya

Doesn't matter - the point is, if you're standing in a Bier-Haus and every man-jack in there is bawling out 'Tomorrow Belongs to Me' are you suddenly going to stand up on a table and heckle them? I doubt it.

Apart from anything else, if your country is going down the toilet, and somebody is offering stability and prosperity for all, wouldn't you be up for that? You're forgetting the importance of hindsight.

No I am not. Which is why I do not think it would have been approprate to punish the German people for having allowed and supported the Nazi terror.

My single point is that the truth should be remembered for what it is, not covered up in denials and deceptions. It is important for us to realize that people are people and that you have to stand up against things you know are evil immeadiately when you see them, or all to quickly it can be too late.

[Medvedya]

But that's exactly it, who in Germany could have imagined a place like Auschwitz being built at the time the Enabling Act was being passed?

Originally Posted by Medvedya

But that's exactly it, who in Germany could have imagined a place like Auschwitz being built at the time the Enabling Act was being passed?

Camps were built and the future was apparent as early as 1933.

People have to be responsible for the evil acts of those they support. The German people supported Hitler. He was a very popular leader right till the last year of WWII. The people knew what he was doing and they chose not to care. The fact that it occured incrementally over a period of about 10 years does not justify their continuing to support him.

Look, there is no way around it. Either people are responsible or they are not. What bothers me is that neither the Germans nor the Japanese people seem willing to accept that their parents/granparents were responsible for their countries actions in WWII. They should be accepting it and resloving themselves never to let it happen again, instead of denying it and making a repeat of history much more likely.

=S=

Lunatic

[Medvedya]

But I don't think there is any denial. Look at all the German people who post here. None of them have come up with any 'Denial' theories - if anything, you can visit plenty of British and American Neo-Nazi websites who will come up with those.

I think that to recognise the bravery and skill of ordinary German soldiers, sailors, and airmen is a world away from either playing down, or championing the atrocities the Nazi's committed.

[Nonskimmer]

You will certainly meet individuals in denial, and there are of course the Neo-Nazi groups, growing even in Germany itself, but I don't believe for a second that the nation on the whole is denying anything.

Quite the contrary.

I've had the opportunity to meet with several Germans, civilian and military, both young and of the WWII generation, in Germany and elsewhere, and on the whole there's been nothing resembling a lack of regret for the horrors perpetrated by the Nazis.
Should the beliefs of some right-wing radicals be a reflection of the entire culture? Of course not.

The German youth of today are in fact taught about the horrors of the holocaust, and young recruits of the Bundeswehr/Bundesmarine/Luftwaffe are educated further during their basic training. They are not allowed to forget.

I'm of the belief that this must continue, in the Allied nations as well as the former Axis. Already signs of complacency are becoming apparent at Remembrance (or Memorial) ceremonies for our own veterans. It's a disturbing trend!

Well, if you look at the survey results of young German's it is apparent that only a small % are very aware of what happened in WWII, especially with respect to the Holocaust. If you look at post-war surveys and those taken in the 60's and 70's, it is pretty clear that most Germans deny they knew what was going on during the war w.r.t. the holocaust. There are pleanty of exceptions, but it's genrally a taboo subject in general conversation and those who don't want to know are easily able to avoid the knowlege.

With the Japanese it's far worse. As I pointed out earlier, when surveyed young Japanese adults believe "Japan was a not very agressive country before WWII that the USA conquered". Japanese denials concering the rape of Nanking, the treatment of POW's, and the atrocities of Unit 731 abound.

Anyway, this has gotten far off the topic and far off the point I was originally trying to make. I'm not trying to be disrepectful to anyone, I'm just saying that it is important that history be remembered for what it really was. This goes for the USA as well, we have pleanty of things in our history that are shameful, such as the butchering of the Native Americans and the breaking of treaty after treaty with them, the slavery issue, McCarthyism, etc.... It's important that all these things be remembered.

=S=

Lunatic

[Nonskimmer]

Oh, I most definitely agree that history should be remembered factually!
Not always the case I'm afraid, which is why realistic education is so very important. With our ever worsening infatuation with 'political correctness', many facts are in very real danger of going by the wayside, in favour of spared feelings and good relations!

Yes, Germans and Japanese should be made to at least remember the atrocities of their forefathers in WWII. Not to rub their noses in anything, but to ensure that these terrible deeds are never forgotten, in the hopes that they are never repeated.

I will reiterate , however, that it is no less important that the youth of the Allied nations be equally well educated on the facts!

At least some must be made to understand and remember!

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i think it's ing that most people don't have a clue about WWII...........

[Hot Space]

What's WWII?

Hot Space

[Medvedya]

The sequel... Got a lot more action and carnage than in the original.

[Nonskimmer]

And the third instalment will surely blow us all away!

[Hot Space]

Wasn't that the one where Harrison Ford played the Spanish Goalkeeper?

Hot Space

[Medvedya]

Nah, there was a lot of talk a while back of making it into a trilogy, but it was decided that it would be too expensive.