Germans demand apology for allied bombing raids

Well, it just goes to show that if you are going to execute a brutal moral-less war of agression, you better win.

And if you are going to loose, you better make sure it is the Americans who you loose to.

I cannot understand why, in about Feb. 1945 or even earlier, the Germans didn't throw everything they had against the Soviets and allow the USA and Britain to occupy all of Germany to keep the Soviets out. Sheer madness to allow the Soviets to take half their country!

Had the German's spent the forces they used at the Battle of the Bulge against the Soviets, the post-war map would have been totally different.

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Lunatic

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Good point. I personally think that Hitler had given up on Germany and wanted it all or nothing and was prepared to let Germany be completely destroyed by the Russians if need be.

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Good point. I personally think that Hitler had given up on Germany and wanted it all or nothing and was prepared to let Germany be completely destroyed by the Russians if need be.

Well, I really don't think this was the case. Hitler could have authorized the use of nerve gas against the Russians, but choose not to. He did not want to be remembered for having made the Fatherland uninhabitable.

I suspect that Hitler somehow thought they were going to manage a comeback right into May 1945.

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Lunatic

[delcyros]

Actually, beside of the Battle of the Bulge, they throw nearly all they had against soviet forces (including suicide attacks against the river Oder bridgeheads). The last offensive battle was in hungary at march 1945. In april they fought a major battle in front of the gates of Berlin (at the heights of Seelow, approx. 20.000 german and between 50.000 and 80.000 soviet soldiers died) and later a battle at Halbe/Teupitz. All against soviet forces. Germany simply lacked in fuel to field most weapons (most piston driven planes to be silenced in march) properly. I cannot see any substantial defefense later than march 1945 against the western forces. And I think, you are right, Hitler and other Nazi leaders believed in a cease fire on the west (esspecially after Roosevelts death). And they relied on their "secret weapons", it shows their stupidness...

By March it was too late. If the German's had made their stand against the Russians in Dec. 1944 - early Feb. 1945 while simultaneously opening the gates to the US/Brit forces, the map would have been very different. By April, nothing was going to stop Stalin from claiming his prize, even if that meant war with the W. Allies.

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Lunatic

[Maestro]

Personnally, I think that Hitler thought that he could still push back both Western Allies and the Soviets untill a few weeks before the end of the war.

I read somewhere that Hitler did say (just before the fall of Berlin) :

"If the Allies wants to take Berlin, let's make them take only cinders."

It prooves the madness of that... bloke.

[delcyros]

Probably he did, but it is really far away from reality...
The only way I see to change the outcome a bit (in terms of post war map) would be to assasinate Hitler (it was tried for 37 times from 1932 to 1945, the closest beeing the 1944 attack of Stauffenberg) in late 1944. Even if this cannot prevent unconditional surrender, war on the east would have been much more effective and gates to Berlin would have been open for US and UK forces (..and Rommel wouldn´t have been forced to suicide..).

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I really dont think he did believe that. He did say in a speach to the German people that they had failed and that there was no hope for the german people now. I truely think if he could not have it all, no one else would and he wanted the destruction of it.

Then why didn't Hitler authorize the use of nerve-gas? It would surely have stopped the Soviet and W. Allied advance.

[delcyros]

That is a good question. Nerve gases and biological weapons (remember Botulinum) have been avaiable in really large numbers. As far as I know, it wasn´t even considered a solution. But maybe Hitler himself gives an explenation for this. During ww1 he was poisened by nerve gases and retired the army heavily injured. This was a key memory for him, could it be that he refused the use of nerve gases because of personal reasons?

Hitler's command staff wanted to use nerve gas, particularly against the Russians. Hitler refused, because he believed this would make the land uninhabitable for an extended period (I'm not sure if this is true, how persistant were the German nerve gases?), and did not want to be remembered for having utterly destroyed the Fatherland.

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Lunatic

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I was going to say a combinataion of both. Hitler wanted the eastern Lands to be used as living space for the Germans and also because he was gassed in WW1.

[Pisis]

Which Germans exactly wanted the Quenn to apologize? If it's some tabloid, who give a ****?

Again I must put in remembrance that during the war, there is different rules.

Howgh!

[Wurger]

The silly people start war and the stupid people wage war and they seldom take the practitioners' advice !!!
Maybe they.

[syscom3]

The Germans didnt want to use chemical weapons as it would have been used back on them.

The horrors of gas warfare in WW1 was deeply ingrained into the collective memory of all the combatants.