Greatest WWII Military Commanders: Updated

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by starling

monty took over cossack,kicked out most of the rubbish,eg general k.e.n anderson,proposed c.o of brit 2nd army,planned overlord.would that not make him a strategic general.starling. .

First of all "Monty" did not plan Overlord. Overlord was planned by many Generals.
You can not give him the credit for Overlord.

Originally Posted by starling

i once saw doc areyce nusbacher say..the only way to sttop a german blitz attack,was defence in depth like kursk...well he never read about medenine did he.our monty stopped a whole german panzer corps;10pz div,15pz div and 21pz div,dead.commanded by rommel,again.he gave rommel a real kick in the face,which apparently made rommel ill.poor boy had to go home,i believe.yours,starling.

I recommend that you get over your personal bias and national pride for everything British and learn about other commanders as well.

You make it seem in your posts that Rommel was the most inferior General known to man and he was beaten in every battle he commanded. Frankly you are very very wrong...

Also just to give you a heads up, Rommel did not leave Africa because Monty beat him. Learn some history.

[parsifal]

Rommel will always stand very tall for me. Quite apart from his considerable military talents, what stands out for me, was his ability to stand up for what he believed to be right. When ordered to shoot all commandoes summarily, without trial, he very publicly tore up and burned the written orders in the presesence of his IA,

After his expereineces in the Desert, Rommel advocatted a strong shift to Infantry/AT defence, because he doubted the ability of tanks to be as effective in defences. He foresaw the great material advantage of the allies that was coming, and believed the only way to stop it was by a sustained conventional defence, to extract the maximum casulaties out of the allies (which he rightly saw as the allied achilles heel). He also believed it absolutley necessary to seek peace terms for germany after 1943, and was bitterly disappointed when he realized that Hitler intended no such outcome. I believe he foresaw hitlers intentions for Germany, victory or destruction, and was horrified to realize just how out of touch hitler had become.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by parsifal

Rommel will always stand very tall for me. Quite apart from his considerable military talents, what stands out for me, was his ability to stand up for what he believed to be right. When ordered to shoot all commandoes summarily, without trial, he very publicly tore up and burned the written orders in the presesence of his IA,

After his expereineces in the Desert, Rommel advocatted a strong shift to Infantry/AT defence, because he doubted the ability of tanks to be as effective in defences. He foresaw the great material advantage of the allies that was coming, and believed the only way to stop it was by a sustained conventional defence, to extract the maximum casulaties out of the allies (which he rightly saw as the allied achilles heel). He also believed it absolutley necessary to seek peace terms for germany after 1943, and was bitterly disappointed when he realized that Hitler intended no such outcome. I believe he foresaw hitlers intentions for Germany, victory or destruction, and was horrified to realize just how out of touch hitler had become.

I agree, he was a very noble man.

I have met his son on many occasions. He used to be the mayor of the city I lived in. I have actually had dinner with him, when he was the guest of honor for my BN banquent. He did a lot for German/American relations in the Stuttgart area.

I used to travel to Rommels grave site every year as part of the military memorial on the day of his death, and I took a tour of his house near Ulm and got to see his Knights Cross and Pour le Merit as well as several of his uniforms and photo albums.

I actually own an original picture (well sort of original, it is taken from the original negative) of Rommel in Africa that was given to me by his son and a member of the Afrika Corps association.

[Njaco]

Chris, that is amazing!

I have always considered Rommel one of the greatest generals not only based on his war exploits but on his character as well.

[parsifal]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

I agree, he was a very noble man.

I have met his son on many occasions. He used to be the mayor of the city I lived in. I have actually had dinner with him, when he was the guest of honor for my BN banquent. He did a lot for German/American relations in the Stuttgart area.

I used to travel to Rommels grave site every year as part of the military memorial on the day of his death, and I took a tour of his house near Ulm and got to see his Knights Cross and Pour le Merit as well as several of his uniforms and photo albums.

I actually own an original picture (well sort of original, it is taken from the original negative) of Rommel in Africa that was given to me by his son and a member of the Afrika Corps association.

Very impressive.

Im not saying that Rommel was not without fault. What I really object to is mindless criticism not based on any subjective analysis at all. The man deserves better respect than thet, just the same as Monty does for his exploites as well.

I often have wondered what would have happened if Rommel had survived the war. What would have been the effect of his commentary to the post war histories???

[freebird]

Originally Posted by parsifal

I often have wondered what would have happened if Rommel had survived the war. What would have been the effect of his commentary to the post war histories???

He probably would have made some trouble for the post-war balance in East Germany. He seems to be the kind to speak his mind regardless of the consequences.

I wonder if he would have been involved in an "unfortunate accident" if he was in East Germany? Like Patton.....

[parsifal]

oooh, are you suggesting that P{atton was done away with???? I'd never heard that, but he was considered a nuisance even by his own side by that stage.....

[Kruska]

Originally Posted by parsifal

I often have wondered what would have happened if Rommel had survived the war. What would have been the effect of his commentary to the post war histories???

Sad as it is, but I think he would just have blamed Hitler for everything, such as the majority of the other surviving Wehrmacht “icons”.
This is what I do not like; accept about these people (incl. Rommel), they went all along from the very beginning and once the situation turned against Germany or their fortune it simply comes down to Hitler.

Rommel / Kesselring did not take Malta, he was not able to devise and persist on a vital plan in order to conduct his conquest in Africa, he points out at the disastrous fuel situation but still prefers to continue (gambling) instead of pulling back or digging in his troops and pressuring towards High Command and Hitler to ensure a solid basis for an ongoing war.

If he was as open spoken as historians try to make him, well he should have said: My Fuehrer if the supply situation can’t be guaranteed or ensured, I advice to pull out the Africa Corps before it becomes exterminated. Off course he never went as far as to forward a pull out, since then his career would have ended drastically.

Generals such as Paul Hausser didn't run around and complain, they made the best out of the prevailing situation, disobeyed openly attack, retreat and battle orders of Hitler in order to ensure a German victory, Kharkov was a classic example, Generals like Rundstedt and Guderian opposed Hitlers orders openly and got sacked, some later reactivated.

As far as I know, Parkinson disease is inherited, Manfred Rommel his son, suffers from it since he is 68/70 and I tend to believe that his father had it too from 1942/3 onward. It is very obvious that E. Rommel deteriorated very rapidly after 1943 and I do not think that it was due to the defeat in Africa or a resignation towards Hitler and the war.

Regards
Kruska

[starling]

oh come along gentlemen,monty kicked rommel at alamein,and then kicked him for 1200miles across north africa.and then kicked his arse at medenine.i suppose you will twist this around,poor old rommel.yours,starling.
i also know a very close relative of sir brian horrocks,c.o of different formations in the desert and ending up most famousley as xxx corps commander.yours,starling .

[Kruska]

Originally Posted by starling

oh come along gentlemen,monty kicked rommel at alamein,and then kicked him for 1200miles across north africa.and then kicked his arse at medenine.i suppose you will twist this around,poor old rommel.yours,starling.
i also know a very close relative of sir brian horrocks,c.o of different formations in the desert and ending up most famousley as xxx corps commander.yours,starling .

I do appreciate your nationalistic spirit, but why don’t you start to “neutrally” analyze Al Alamein till Tunis?

If the 5 fuel tankers would not have been stopped by (Enigma decoding) it would have been most likely Rommel who would have succeeded at Al Alamein. Rommel was defeated at AA but to say he got his butt kicked is not doing the fallen allied soldiers or Germans any favors, it was actually a very costly victory for Monty, especially for the Australians and NZ boys.

After that Monty dragged and moved in slow motion behind Rommel enabling him to set up defenses at Medenine which again were costly for the allies to overcome.

If not for the 2nd front at Tunis, the defensive position at Medenine would have been a second Al Alamein, but in favor for Rommel.

Regards
Kruska

[starling]

are you missing mareth out for other reasons kruska.
there were many soldiers from the commmonwealth as well as british soldiers.they fought and died to rid the world of a megalomaniac.or madman.
monty visited his soldiers,talked to them.he sacked commanders in private.rommel ignored manyunits and chastised officers in the open.8th army soldiers trusted monty.yours,starling.

[Kruska]

Originally Posted by starling

are you missing mareth out for other reasons kruska.
there were many soldiers from the commmonwealth as well as british soldiers.they fought and died to rid the world of a megalomaniac.or madman.
monty visited his soldiers,talked to them.he sacked commanders in private.rommel ignored manyunits and chastised officers in the open.8th army soldiers trusted monty.yours,starling.

Mareth line is Medenine (Operation Pugilist and Supercharge II) you joker. Operation Capri at Medenine was an attempt to delay the British attack on Mareth. Any general will visit and talk and ......

Which units did Rommel ignore? and which occasions are you refering to in regards to chastising his officers?

Regards
Kruska