 | Handguns from World Wars| WW2 General Discuss Handguns from World Wars in the World War II - General forums; " I find this ballistics debate amusing. As the misinformation is flying back and forth. I wish that I had ... |
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02-09-2007, 11:14 PM
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#151 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 681
| "I find this ballistics debate amusing. As the misinformation is flying back and forth. I wish that I had noted this thread back at its origination."
Agreed Matt 308.
Last edited by Jank : 02-10-2007 at 03:34 PM.
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02-10-2007, 03:57 AM
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#152 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
Country:  | Then correct what you see wrong or dont bother posting in it. Simple...
You have a habit of doing that. You go into a thread and say this ****** up, but dont say why or correct it. You just comment on it being that way and dont post your 2 cents.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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02-10-2007, 12:30 PM
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#153 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 681
| "You have a habit of doing that. You go into a thread and say this ****** up, but dont say why or correct it."
Excuse me? A habit? Examples please?
I just discovered this 11 page thread last night and am not going to go back and pick apart poster's comments from last year. As indicated, Iwouldn't even know where to start in correcting it all. You will also notice that I echoed Matt 308's comment.
Go back and look at my last 50 posts and show me this so called 'habit" of just criticising without saying why or correcting the points I am refuting. My 2 cents are all over this forum with, I might add, citations to sources.
At any rate, I have removed the offensive part at the end of my comment. Only the upper portion of the post remains.
Last edited by Jank : 02-10-2007 at 03:36 PM.
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02-11-2007, 01:39 AM
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#154 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 681
| Soren is correct in his assertion that a .45 will not knock you back several feet. (Not even one foot for that matter) Hit with a .45, one might display a jerking movemement on impact from the shock to the nervous system but will not be carried or otherwise pushed by the force of the impact.
That is a myth perpetuated largely by Hollywood.
Now I have never shot a person but I have shot literally dozens of hogs and deer with handguns and rifles. I have shot a few hogs with a .45acp. They were over 100lbs but less than 200lbs. One just dropped and flinched a bit and the two others ran off only to collapse less than 100 feet away. I think one was a neck shot and the two others were broadside to the chest area. All three shots had no exit as I was using hollow point ammunition. That means that all of the energy was transferred into the target. They were hot loads out of a 5" Springfield. None of them were pushed or otherwise moved by the force of the impact.
I have shot hogs with rifles as powerful as a .338 Winchester Magnum and never seen one knocked over by the impact.
In an attempt to dispel the myth that one might be knocked back by the force of a projectile from a gun, I once made a bet with a friend that a 12 gauge with buckshot wouldn't blow a man up against a wall (which he thought would be the case) from a direct blast at close range to the chest.
I took a six foot long piece of 4x4 with nicely squared ends so that it would stand on end on the flat ground. I assume it weighed about 25 or so pounds. I took a 3" large birdshot load and from a distance of less than three feet, put that load directly into the center of that 4x4 at about one foot from the top. The entire load was captured by the 4x4 with none of the pellets exiting. All of the energy of that blast was immediately stopped and was thus transferred into that 25 or so pound piece of wood. It fell over quite hard but the bottom of that 4x4 was not carried more than 15" or so.
Needless to say, I won the bet. (He welched by the way.)
Now that 12 gauge load probably had over 2,000 foot pounds of energy which is about five times that of a .45 acp. That piece of wood was only about 25 pounds.
As far as the effect on even a 100 pound human (4x the weight) from a .45acp (20% the impact energy), you do the math.
__________________ August 12, 1944 - In an armor cover mission at the Falaise track, Charlie Rife, 368th FG, 395th FS, takes 37mm fllak rounds to both wings. His wingman, Richard Kik, takes a 20mm round to the engine that knocks out two cylinders. Both make it back.  
Last edited by Jank : 02-11-2007 at 02:02 AM.
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02-11-2007, 03:42 AM
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#155 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by Jank  "You have a habit of doing that. You go into a thread and say this ****** up, but dont say why or correct it."
Excuse me? A habit? Examples please?
I just discovered this 11 page thread last night and am not going to go back and pick apart poster's comments from last year. As indicated, Iwouldn't even know where to start in correcting it all. You will also notice that I echoed Matt 308's comment.
Go back and look at my last 50 posts and show me this so called 'habit" of just criticising without saying why or correcting the points I am refuting. My 2 cents are all over this forum with, I might add, citations to sources.
At any rate, I have removed the offensive part at the end of my comment. Only the upper portion of the post remains. | I dont have time for that either, so do as you please. However I should have worded my post slightly differently.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life"
Last edited by DerAdlerIstGelandet : 02-11-2007 at 03:48 AM.
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02-18-2007, 11:37 PM
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#156 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 22
Country:  | If you were to be knocked over by the impact of a bullet, would it not make sense that the person firing that bullet would be knocked over as well? That bullet didnt CREATE energy on the way... | |
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02-19-2007, 07:03 PM
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#157 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,584
| Quote:
Originally Posted by bananafoothead If you were to be knocked over by the impact of a bullet, would it not make sense that the person firing that bullet would be knocked over as well? That bullet didnt CREATE energy on the way... | Exactly.
__________________  We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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02-20-2007, 01:30 AM
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#158 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 681
| "If you were to be knocked over by the impact of a bullet, would it not make sense that the person firing that bullet would be knocked over as well?"
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
__________________ August 12, 1944 - In an armor cover mission at the Falaise track, Charlie Rife, 368th FG, 395th FS, takes 37mm fllak rounds to both wings. His wingman, Richard Kik, takes a 20mm round to the engine that knocks out two cylinders. Both make it back. | |
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02-20-2007, 10:07 AM
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#159 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: UK
Posts: 3,505
Country:  | Just a thought (I may Be wrong)
But if you hit a pointed object into say a door with a sledge hammer it penetrates right through the door but if you hit the door with just the sledge hammer the door comes off its hinges, does not something like a dum dum round create the same effect as just the sledge hammer. both times the motive force is the same but delivered in a different form, one penetrative the other bludgeoning. | |
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02-24-2007, 01:32 AM
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#160 | | aka Dickcheese
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,111
Country:  | Very good trackend. You just hit upon the great bullet debate.
Do you design your bullet to harness the most amount of energy that is possible only to have it fully penetrate its intended target (ie thus carrying energy with it beyond). Or do you design the bullet to expend all of its energy within the body of the target. These debates continue to this day with those claiming maximum energy absorption is most important versus those who claim that a higher velocity bullet will create a larger wound cavity thus incapacitating the target sooner.
Shoot 'em with a flying ashtray or pierce 'em with a needle. A legitimate debate.
__________________ 
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
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02-24-2007, 11:12 AM
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#161 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 681
| To bring the "great bullet debate" back to the issue at hand, neither ball nor hyper expansive bullets are going to knock even a 100lb person back a couple of feet by virtue of the energy imparted into the body.
Last year my brother hit a small pig (maybe 70lbs or so) broadside with a .243 Winchester at less than 100 yards. There was no exit as the bullet desintegrated upon impact with a rib.
That bullet, at 100 yards was packing 1,550 foot pounds of energy. A hot .45 ACP load will develop about 400 foot pounds at the muzzle.
To make a long story short, that little pig just dropped like a brick in its tracks. She made for tasty sauage as I recall. 
__________________ August 12, 1944 - In an armor cover mission at the Falaise track, Charlie Rife, 368th FG, 395th FS, takes 37mm fllak rounds to both wings. His wingman, Richard Kik, takes a 20mm round to the engine that knocks out two cylinders. Both make it back.
Last edited by Jank : 02-24-2007 at 11:20 AM.
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02-25-2007, 01:09 AM
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#162 | | aka Dickcheese
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,111
Country: |
__________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
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