How Rundstedt could've repulsed the Allied invasion in 44

[wmaxt]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Agreed wmaxt.

What I dont think syscom understand however is that if the Panzers had been used as Guderian had suggested, when the allies moved inland there would have been a suitable defense and they could react wherever needed and still been out of range of the Allied naval power. Also by that time the Luftwaffe would have gained strength in the area. The Luftwaffe was far from defeated in June 1944.

Agreed, if the panzers were used quickly and effectively, the problem is that the first week or so the allies had virtualy the entire airforces of the AAF and Britian over the invasion areas including on two (if I remember right) occasions heavy bombers. The Luftwaffe wasn't decimated but of aircraft in a usable radius they faced almost 2,000 fighters the first few days. The Germans had an impossible task in defending the continent even if the major part of their armies wern't engaged in the east and the Normandy area was especialy vulnerable.

The final analysis is that if the Germans could have gotten the panzers, some men and even some night bombing of the Mulberrys it would have had a terrible effect on the invasion.

wmaxt

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Agreed there wmaxt!

Also I am not sure on this but I heard somewhere that the Allied Heavy Bombers on several occasions accidentaly dropped there bombs on Allied positions during the Invasion. Is this true and do you have any info on it if it is.

[plan_D]

It's true. I'll find the information.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

That is what I though. Some bad luck for those guys on the ground!

[syscom3]

On July 24th, 8th AF bombers dropped several salvo's short and 80 casualties resulted. Target area was St. Lo

On July 25th, same thing but this time 382 casualties. St. Lo again was the target.

I might be mistaken, but Gen. Eisenhower and Gen Bradley were mislead about how the 8th AF was going to attack the front lines. They wanted the bombers to travel ina line that paralleled the lines. The 8th AF HQ changed the plans to bomb perpendicular. This lead to "short bombing".

Ike and Bradley were pissed off about what happened and were reluctant to believe in or use heavy bombers in direct support of the infantry ever again.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Damn bad bad luck. or should I say planning.

[syscom3]

I was leafing through a book about the Normandy invasion and I came across this tidbit.

The German navy made use of the port of Le Havre well unto June 14. That night, the RAF wiped out the port, sinking 3 torpedo boats, 10 E-Boats, 15 R-Boats and 18 other smaller craft.

The next night the RAF wiped out the port of Boulogne sinking 25 R-Boats and other craft.

Prior to these events, the German navy was completley ineffectual in their attempts to interdict and slow down the allied buildup. After this, they became the proverbial mosquito biting an elephant. Not worth the effort.

[Erich]

U guys need friend James Tents "E-Boat Alert" which will give you full documentation of the sinking of many S-booten in their ports an those that made it out to sink allied shipping later. so much fear was put into these little craft that it was a top priority to sink them before they could get out to sea at Normandie

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Sort of off topic but interestingly 24 R-Boots were returned to Germany as part of the New Bundes Marine in 1956 and were used well into the 1960 as coastal minesweepers and patrol boats.

[mosquitoman]

I've heard of S-Boots, but what were R-Boots?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

They were small minesweepers designed to operate in coastal waters and shallow areas. The Germans built aprox. 300 of them from 1933 till the end of the war. Most of them did not have standard propellors and rudders but horizontally mounted Voith-Schneider propellors which made the boats very maneuverable.

They did mine sweeping, convoy escort, and escorting U-Boots out of there pens.

After the war many were taken over by the Allies: USA got 48, the Soviet Union 45, Denmark 24, Britain 11, the Netherlands 8 and Norway got 4 of them.

Some were eventually used to start the German Minesweeping Service "Deutscher Mienenräumdienst" to remove the minefields in european waters after the war, and 24 were returned to the New German Navy in 1955 and used into the 1960s.

Dimensions
Size (Max): 155 t
Length (Total): 41,0 m
Beam: 5,8 m
Draft: 1,7 m
Weapons
3,7 cm Flak: 1
2 cm MG: 3
8,6 cm Missle Launcher "Föhn": 1
Engines
Voith-Schneider Propellers: 2
Engines: 2
Type: MAN 8-cylinder diesel
Performance
Total Performance: 1800 shp
Speed: 19 kn

[evangilder]

Good info there, Adler!

[Gnomey]

Good stuff!

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Thankyou

[mosquitoman]

Thanks, great info!