Infantry of World War 2

[KraziKanuK]

I know it is going to hit the fan but the best common Allied(non American) soldiers were from the 'Colonies'.

[Nonskimmer]

Heh. I have a great uncle who wholeheartedly agrees with that. Ex-Airborne.

[trackend]

Its only right that you show your colours KK I think that most guys are going to go with their own nationalities my old man worked along side Canadian,US,Australian,Gurka,Poles, and British troops as well as coming in close contact with German and Japanese troops he always said each had there merits and there faults the perfect soldier is yet to be invented.

[plan_D]

Absolutely no evidence to back that up though, KK?

Although they weren't the best, the British colonials were excellent fighting troops. Why say "non-American", the American troops weren't the best and far from it.

All the British Airborne units were remarkable soldiers, and that goes for Colonial troops also. You will find that many Canadians, British, Australians, New Zealanders etc. etc. fought alongside in the same regiments during the war.

The "Colonials" were just as bad, and as good, as the British troops. The only "Colonial" troops that do stand out for me are the Ghurka and West African troops, who were in action in the CBI.

I feel it seems to be something to do with the anti-British sentiment; if the British were always such poor fighting troops, how did they own one third of the Earth and all the oceans?

[the lancaster kicks ass]

yeah so, how big was the american empire

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The German Paratroopers were great fighters. Fort Eben Emael which was considered impregnable in Belgium was taken in about 30 hours by only 85 paratroopers (some sources say only 38 to 80) led by a Seargant. They rehearsed it the operation over and over and over on a replica of the fort before they did it.

Their second operation, which this time included parachuting and glider landings, was a month later in the invasion of western europe. They did what paratroopers do best, and captured vital river bridges behind enemy lines which the advancing german armor needed to cross, and a formidable belgian fortress, Eben Emael, which guarded other key bridges.

Eben Emael was manned by about a thousand belgian soldiers and was strongly fortified. It was a set of seven large fortified artillery positions, with 18 artillery guns, surrounded by many machine gun positions, mine fields, barbed wire, a moat, and connected via underground bunkers and tunnels.

On May 10, 1940, at dawn, this fortress was attacked by just 78 Fallschirmjager troops which landed on top of it with 10 gliders. They were equipped with light weapons and with several 100 pound armor piercing explosive charges. Before the raid these 78 paratroopers trained on a full size model of the Eben Emael fortress. They landed precisely on the roof of the large fortress in total surprise, and with their far superior fighting skill over the shocked belgians they were able to quickly take over the roof area and confine the defenders to their fortified bunkers which they cracked one after the other with their special explosive charges. The german losses were just six dead and twenty wounded. A day later, when the paratroopers were joined by german ground forces, the hundreds of remaining belgian defenders inside the fortress surrendered.

The small elite force of just 78 german paratroopers defeated a greatly larger force in a mighty fortress. It was a great success which remains one of the most daring and successful raids in history, a model of what elite soldiers can achieve in properly planned raids.

Kurt Student himself suffered a severe head injury in the fighting in Holland, but survived. A year later he was back on duty and he and Erwin Rommel proposed a large scale airborne operation. http://www.2worldwar2.com/fallschirmjager.htm

Originally Posted by P-38 Pilot

But when it comes down too power, size, and reliable weapons, the United States had the upperhand in Europe and the Pacific.

Not to take anything away from the US weapons. They had great weapons like the M-1 and so forth but K98 Mauser was a great weapon and so was the Karabiner 43, FG 42, Gewehr 43, MG34, MG42, Panzerfaust, Panzerschreck, and Sturmgewehr 44. Some of these weapons were some of the best of the war. The British aswell had some great excellent weapons that were very reliable.

FG 42

Caliber: 7.92x57mm Mauser
Weight:
Version I - 4.5 kg (9.92 lb)
version II, 4.9 kg (11.2 lb)
Length: 937 mm (I); 1060 mm (II)
Magazine Capacity: 10 or 20 rounds
Cyclic Rate: 900 (I); 600 (II) rounds per minute
Effective Range: roughly 500 meters (550 yards)

Gewehr 43 and Karabiner 43

Caliber: 7.92 x 57 mm Mauser
Muzzle velocity: 775 m/s (2,328 ft/s)
Action: Gas operated
Overall length: 1130 mm
Barrel length: 546 mm
versions with barrel lengths of 600, 650 and 700 mm existed as well
Weight: 4.1 kg, (9.7 lb) unloaded and without the scope
Rate of fire: 20 to 30 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 10 rounds
Sights: One of several scopes, typically 4x or 2.5x, backup "iron sights" as well.

K98 Mauser

Barrel length 600 mm
Ammunition 7.92 x 57 mm Mauser
Magazine 5 rounds internal box
Action
Rate of fire approx 15 rpm
Muzzle velocity 745 m/s
Weight 3.7 - 4.1 kg
Length 1110 mm
Variants
Number built 10 million +

MG34

Caliber: 7.92 mm
Load: continuous belt feed (50 or 200 round strips) or 75 round beltless saddle drum
Action: selective fire, air cooled
Rate of fire: 800 to 900 round/min
Weight: 12.1 kg (26.7 lb)
Weight with tripod: 19.2 kg (42.3 lb)

MG42

Calibre 7.92
Barrel length
Ammunition 7.92 x 57 mm
Magazine belt (50 or 250)
Action recoil, roller locking
Rate of fire 1200
Muzzle velocity
Weight 11.6 kg
Length
Variants none
Number built 400,000

MP40

Cartridge 9 x 19 mm
Action Blowback
Rate of fire 500 rpm
Muzzle velocity ~380 mps
Effective range ~ 100 m
Weight (Unloaded) 3.97 Kg
Length 63 cm (stock folded)
83.3 cm (stock extended)
Barrel 25.1 cm
Magazine capacity 32
Viewing sights Blade front
tangent U-notch
Variants MP36, MP38, MP40, MP40/1, MP41
Number built Over 1 million

Sturmgewehr 44

Cartridge 7.92 x 33 mm
Action Gas-actuated
Rate of fire 500-600
Muzzle velocity 685 m/s
Effective range 300 m
Weight (Unloaded) 5.22 kg
Length 940 mm
Barrel 419 mm
Magazine capacity 30
Viewing sights Blade front
Tangent U-notch rear
Variants ??
Number built 425,977

Needless to say the AK-47 was influenced by the 44.

[Nonskimmer]

The ol' Sten was one of those love/hate weapons with the Commonwealth troops. My great uncle George would say it was a "bastard of a thing" that had parts sticking out every which way, getting caught up and snagged in webbing and uniforms. He said it was awkward to hold (He was referring to the earlier Mk.II Sten, which had no grips save for the magazine.), and that you had to watch that you didn't wind up shooting the men around you with it. But...it worked! It was a simple, cheap, easy to produce wartime sub-machine gun that was there when it was needed most.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I agree with you on that.

[trackend]

That sounds familiar Skimm my old man said the same as your uncle George about the Sten the bolt had such a poor safety and weak spring on a heavy bolt that it did not always engage on the casing of a chambered round could cause a live round to be pushed up the arse of an expended cartridge and fire the round out of the ejector slot. I believe 2 million Sten MKII's where produced this cartoon says it about right

[Nonskimmer]

Heh! That's probably your dad and my Uncle George.

[trackend]

LOL true Skim
He had plenty of Kanuks along side him he remembered unloading German prisoners by a jetty wall and this Canadian squaddie was push troops up a ladder and an arrogent SS officer strolled a bit too slowly for the guy so he whipped out his bayonet and stuck it in this Nazi officers arse for some reason he lost his swagger and scrambled up the ladder. it was'nt many months after Dieppe so feelings where still very raw.

[Nonskimmer]

I've met a few of the old fellas who were at Dieppe, and more than one of them blame the entire fiasco on the Navy.
Poor navigation, late timing of the landings, and all that.

It was a right royal ****-up, that's for sure. But it did give the Allies valuable experience. The worst thing for the Canuck vets was the slap in the face they received from their own government. Only within the last few years has the Dieppe raid been recognized by the government as being worthy of national recognition. The veterans of Dieppe may now properly wear their campaign medals and stand counted with the veterans of Normandy, Italy, Hong Kong, etc. It's a fight that Veterans Affairs, the Royal Canadian Legion, and other veterans groups had been waging with Ottawa for decades.

[KraziKanuK]

pD

'colonies' are countries that were part of the British Empire. The Brits of the day often referred to Aussies, Kiwis, Canucks as colonials.

You want an example > D-Day. The Brits on the Canadian flanks could not keep up with the Canadian advance.

Think what you want but no anti Limey from me. :P

The RN Lanchester, a copy of the MP38, was better than the Sten. Being around a Sten always scared the crap out of me. One experience I remember is a guy jumping out of a deuce and a half and firing off several rounds when hit hit the ground. His finger was not on the trigger. Lucky they hit no one.

Anyone have info on the Ozzi 9mm Owen?

[Nonskimmer]

I applaud your patriotism KK, but don't forget that the Canadian advance was so rapid in part because the Brits on our flanks were taking a lot of the heat. Our boys took a share too, but it was a big front.

Originally Posted by KraziKanuK

Being around a Sten always scared the crap out of me. One experience I remember is a guy jumping out of a deuce and a half and firing off several rounds when hit hit the ground. His finger was not on the trigger. Lucky they hit no one.

You've fired the Sten, eh? So you were in the Army? If so, are you sure you're not thinking of the Sterling? We haven't used Stens since the '50's, and the Sterlings were replaced in the '80's/early '90's with MP-5's. Just asking.

I wish I had some info on the Owen. Sorry.

[Glider]

This may be of interest. Gives the basics of the weapon and comments for and against by people who used it.

http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/owen.htm