Infantry of World War 2

[Glider]

It would be interesting to compare them in a shoot out.

[CharlesBronson]

The german 7,92 mm round had more energy and range than .303

Accuracy ?....I think that they had the same.

[plan_D]

I may be wrong but I believe the K98 had half the range again as the Lee Enfield IV.

[Glider]

There is of course a difference between the range of the bullet and the accuracy of the weapon.
The .303 was used in early WW1 Lee Enfields with a volley sight that was ranged from 2000 yards to a staggering 3,900 yards. The idea was that a volley from a body of men at a large target such as a Cavalry formation would do some damage even if individual accuracy was impossible.
During WW1 they deleted the volley sight as it obviously not required. I don't know the figures for the 7.92 but the .303 clearly had more than enough power.
As for the accuracy of the rifle the Lee Enfield was very accurate for the time. All Lee Enfields were bench tested before being issued to the army to meet minimum standards. The very best were taken off to specialist manufacturers who fitted the sights, cheek pieces and tuned the rifle for issuing to the army.
One of the keys to the accuracy of the Lee Enfield was the length of the barrel. If its too long the bullet will have expended most of its energy before the bullet reaches the end of the barrel and a slight suction effect takes place which induces the bullet to fly less smoothly in the air reducing accuracy. If its too short there is a certain amount of energy which hasn't been transferred to the bullet again causing vibration and in extreme cases can cause a nasty kick/vibration in the rifle such as in the Lee Enfield Mk 5 carbine which wasn't a success.
The standard Lee Enfield had just the right length of barrel. The Mauser was shortened in 1935 and the charge in the cartridge wasn't changed to compensate. In normal use it made little if any difference, but at long range or where you want supreme accuracy it did make a difference.

The British snipers were also allocated special ammunition that had been made to higher standards than normal issue ammo. I believe the same happened in the German Army.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Like I said I dont think the K98 was the best weapon, but it is a joy to shoot like the M1 Grand.

[CharlesBronson]

Female russian snipers at training with Tokarev stv-38.

I am asking myself...That was the girls that accounted sor some 200-300 german soldiers kills..?, ....hmmmm it dont think so...it smell fishy.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Hmmm chicks with guns.....Cool.

[schwarzpanzer]

It would be interesting to compare them in a shoot out.

The Mauser's recoil is straight back.

In a wind tunnel the Mauser wins, otherwise the Mosin-Nagant, SMLE and Kar98k draw.

I don't know the figures for the 7.92

An Australian in North Africa survived a shot (or shots) to the head with one of those things!

I suppose its the tumble that kills.

Various tricks have been used to increase the probability of a bullet tumbling; the British .303 Mk VII bullet had a lightweight tip filler with the weight concentrated towards the rear of the bullet, and the current Russian 5.45mm rifle bullet has a hollow tip.

Taken from: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ballistics.htm

NB: The Russians nearly got into trouble for deliberately using the former principle in the AK-74 round.

The 5.56mm is the same, though I think not so much in the new NATO SS109 - however this is an accidental(?) feature.

It is noteworthy that the commercial loadings will perform at up to 400 fps lower impact velocity than some of the reloading brand bullets, which translates into extended effective lethal range. Here too, we see a trend which explains the effectiveness of many an "obsolete" cartridge whose kinetic energy figures simply pale in comparison to many high powered rounds of today. With a bullet matched in its metallurgical characteristics to the velocity of the rifle (or handgun), performance equivalent or even surpassing that of chamberings of greater theoretical power could be achieved. This is because, as alluded to earlier, an instantaneous kill through massive trauma is not more effective than a kill which drops the animal inside 50 to 100 yds; a level of lethality which can be achieved rather easily with far greater penetration. The X-Bullet is being touted as a phenomenal slayer of game, yet it is clear from the penetration (fully 33 % greater than most conventional designs) and the narrow profile of recovered bullets that the wound channel is of more modest dimensions than that produced by many bullets (see actual test results hereafter). Similar observations have been made of the long heavy bullets used in low-velocity loadings of the .303 British, .30-40 Krag, 6.5 x 54 mm (aka .256) Mannlicher-Schoenauer and 7 x 57 mm Mauser from the turn of the century. These cartridges, considered "underpowered" by contemprary standards, were considered phenomenal slayers of very large game, including the largest species of African antelope, elk, moose, and even grizzlies.

Taken from: http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/b...s/methods.html

Lee Enfield Mk 5 carbine

Those things are well diddy, make a hell of a blast and have massive rubber butts!


Also the SMLE just feels right, has a pistol grip etc.


That Russian bird in that pic is holding the magazine??

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by schwarzpanzer

The Mauser's recoil is straight back.

In a wind tunnel the Mauser wins, otherwise the Mosin-Nagant, SMLE and Kar98k draw.

The Mauser is a joy to shoot atleast for me.

[trackend]

I think the SMLE is the finest army bolt action weapon ever produced
Bisley's One mile club who had the joice of any weapon for there target competitions used the SMLE right up into the seventies the repetative accuracy of the Enfield was unsurpassed .
My brother who was a gunsmith for Leech & Sons during the late sixties worked on most army rifles for collectors and he said the quality of the componants eg trigger sears, breech and general rifle machining on the Enfield was of a very high quality and much superior to the Mauser , the worst being the Japanese Arisaka

[CharlesBronson]

The SMLE action is fine, but the Mauser 98 bolt are stronger, in here and others countrys, there is some hunters that make modifications to the 98 action from Argentine Army Mausers M1909 ( originally for the 7,65mm x 54 ) and convert it to a large caliber weapons, I have seen this modifications even for the 458 Winchester Magnum.

The bolts face diameter is the limit.



You can find more info in here:

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/classics/ct0405_1909/

http://www.surplusrifle.com/argentin...bine/index.asp

[CharlesBronson]

By the way here is a couple of interviews with russian female "snipers" .

http://www.iremember.ru/infantry/kalugina/kalugina.htm

http://www.iremember.ru/infantry/kot...kotliarova.htm

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The Mauser can be compared to todays AK-47 in the fact that it used by so many different countries and hell even made by so many different countries.

[trackend]

The SMLE would be no good for hunting its a soldiers gun for people killing if you want to hunt you buy a hunting rifle converting army rifles for hunting is a bodge job it would be like using an Express 600 for shooting ducks or a 12 bore for sniping.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Not necessarily true. I know people that hunt with Mausers and they have no problem with them.