Moved this off-topic part of discussion from
Soren Message #38
“The Soviet army contained close to 5 times as many men as the German army had in the east, plus the fact that millions of Soviet combattens have never been listed as actual soldiers, yet they fought alongside the soldiers.
I think it is pretty telling that over 12 million Soviet soldiers were killed during WW2, plus a little over 1 million western Allies, and for that 3.25 million German soldiers had to pay with their lives. 80% of the German losses were on the eastern front, so thats ~2.65 million Germans for 12+ million Russians, which is not even counting the millions of unlisted Soviet troops. Anyway that's a 5:1 ratio.”
Juha Message #39
“Are you really sure that in 1941 the Soviet Army engaged combat against axis had close to 5 times as many men as the German army had in the east? Part of Red Army stayed in South and in East, the fact that is sometimes forgot. And as large segment of German soldiers belonged in any given time to Replacement Army it was same in other side. Are you sure that you are not comparing apples to oranges ie the whole Soviet Army to the German army in the east?
3,25 million German soldiers, don’t forget at least 230 000 Austrian soldiers, they also belonged to Wehrmacht, I cannot remember were Sudeten and Elsass-Lothringeans soldiers included to the figure of 3,25million German soldiers. I have seen figures of 3,25 million German soldiers died but that 3,71 million serving in Wehrmacht lost their lives, that incl Austrians, non German and Volksdeutsch Waffen-SS troops, also IMHO Sudeten and Elsass-Lothringerian soldiers. And do you really think that other axis forces didn’t kill a single Red Army soldiers?”
W. Victor Madeja in his The Russo-German War. 25 January to 8 May 1945 (1987) on p.73
gives following manpower figures on Eastern Front
at the end of June 41
Red Army at the European Front 4.7 million
German Army at the Eastern Front (troops of Germany’s allies and co-combatants are not incl., that true through this table) 3.3 million
Red Army at the European Front 2.3 million
German Army at the Eastern Front, number not given
Red Army at the European Front 3.3 million
German Army at the Eastern Front 2.7 million
Red Army at the European Front 4.5 million
German Army at the Eastern Front 2.9 million
Red Army at the European Front 5.1 million
German Army at the Eastern Front 3.2 million
Red Army at the European Front 5.5 million
German Army at the Eastern Front 2.6 million
So according to Madeja Red Army not got 2:1 manpower superiority over German Army in forces fighting on Eastern Front first time until Autumn 43 and even then only if we leave out troops of Germany’s allies and co-combatants (this term incl at least Finland)
Two other questions
Soren Message #36
”... But the Soviets were saved by their harsh winter, the sheer size of their country and by refusing to give a number of cities esp. the city of Stalingrad, forcing the war to transpire into bitter house to house, sewer to sewer fighting.”
I agree that harsh Soviet winter, sheer size of SU and its primitive infrastructure had significant impact on war on Eastern Front but are you saying that Germans were so stupid that they didn’t understand that heavily held cities were best to bypass, if possible, and leave later troops to handle them? Soviet understood that already in Nov 42, when their inner pincers failed to force they ways into Stalingrad they didn’t turn back their outer pincers but allowed them to continue deeper into Germans’ rear.
Same for ex during Soviet big summer offensive in Belo-Russia, their mobile first echelon troops simply bypassed heavily fortified and held towns like Vitebsk, Mogilev and Bobruisk and struck deeper into German rear and succeeded to eliminate much of Army Group Center.
And still waiting an answer to this question, among others:
Quote:” As for the Finns, well their military was well equipped in many areas…”
Would you give for ex. 4 key areas in which Finnish army was well equipped at the eve of Winter War?