Rare & Crazy Panzer Projekts. - Page 18 - Aircraft of World War II

HealzDevo · 02-27-2007, 10:51 PM

Looks like that was an interesting German tank.

Civettone · 03-06-2007, 12:25 AM

Does anyone have data on the amounts of metals used on German tanks. These are usually provided by Datenblatten. I have one of the Pz IVF but it doesn't mean much when you cannot compare.

Kris

CharlesBronson · 03-07-2007, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Looks like that was an interesting German tank.

It was.

VK601, pz 1 ausf C.

Quote:

Does anyone have data on the amounts of metals used on German tanks. These are usually provided by Datenblatten. I have one of the Pz IVF but it doesn't mean much when you cannot compare.

Try this site.

Achtung Panzer! - Additional Information !

CharlesBronson · 03-19-2007, 10:09 PM

Panzerbeobachtungwagen Panther:

Until 1943 the advanced artillery observers were doing his work from armored cars and light halftracks, that vehicles had a very low survivality in the battlefield . A more heavy and well protected panzer was needed.

The Panther Beobachtungwagen (Artillery observation vehicle) was proposed to this task, it had a modified turret mounting wooden dummy gun and ball-mounted 7.92mm MG34. Mounted with additional observation devices designed by the firm Anschutz ( today famous for his small caliber high presition rifles and CO2 guns) wich includes map tables optical rangefinders and goniometric measuring devices. Also it had a more powerful Fug radio equipment and other designed to talk with aicrafts.

Although no combat photo of a Panther Beo was know the german sources claimed that 41 were converted from Panthers returned for repairs in late 1944/45 and used in both fronts.

Profiles from. Panther variants, Jentz/Doyle Osprey Military.

Panther Variants in Color, Waldemar Trojka, kagero Militaria.

Panther, Armor At War series, Anderson/wai, Concord Publishing.

Civettone · 03-20-2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesBronson

It was.

VK601, pz 1 ausf C.

Try this site.

Achtung Panzer! - Additional Information !

No good. Best site around but can't find the information I'm looking for. Most information I find is about the cost price which is not very useful information.

Btw, was that Pz Ic the ultra-armoured Pz I variant, or was that another one?
Kris

HealzDevo · 03-20-2007, 09:37 PM

Oh, well I suppose it seems a lot of information was lost at the end of WWII. Perhaps it was lost then, the data that you seek...

CharlesBronson · 03-21-2007, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Btw, was that Pz Ic the ultra-armoured Pz I variant, or was that another one?
Kris

Panzer 1 aucf C info in the page behind this.

Probably you are refering to the VK 1801 ,a 21 tons tank also named as "Panzer 1 ausf F"

Civettone · 03-21-2007, 11:52 PM

Yes, I was.

That Pz IF (or VK 1801) is rather enigmatic. Can't think of any tank that has its weight more than tripled. I think it had more potential than was credited. With a MK it could have been a good recon, with a Stummelkanone a good StuG and later a good tank hunter with a RPzB.

Kris

CharlesBronson · 03-22-2007, 09:55 PM

Posible, but just had that pair or armored MG 34s.

Civettone · 03-23-2007, 10:01 AM

Thanks Charles. Do you have some more information on how these babies performed on the battlefield. I seem to recall that the few that were built were used on the Ostfront. I can imagine them doing ok but the lack in firepower would have meant they were of little value.

Kris

CharlesBronson · 03-23-2007, 05:38 PM

Some were used by Pz Div in the Eastern Fornt, I guess for partisan cleaning mostly.

HealzDevo · 03-23-2007, 11:22 PM

Would probably have been effective. Artillery the site and then machine gun down anyone running from the scene...

CharlesBronson · 03-24-2007, 01:35 PM

There was also some other variations of this uparmored Pz I and Pz II:

Lexikon der Wehrmacht - Panzer 2 Ausführung M

Panzer II Ausf. H (PzKpfw IIH)

This vehicles were not more that experimental tanks, the heavy need of real combat tanks like Pz III/IV/V deny further development.

Civettone · 03-25-2007, 12:47 PM

That was really interesting! Thanks !!

I also noticed that the Pz IIM had a 28mm gun. IIRC, that was one of those tapered guns with the rare tungsten cored ammunition. I suppose that would have ended the program in the end.

The Pz IIH seems more enigmatic but I suppose the Pz IIL was better protected.

Kris

CharlesBronson · 03-25-2007, 03:36 PM

Yea, the 2,8cm kwk 42 mentioned in the Lexikon site is a projeckt called "Maschinenkanone MK 8202" it was devloped by Mauser, it used conical bore Spzb 41 hard core bullet but with a enlarged cartrigde case to asure higher initial speed. The cannon was automatic , belt fed and operated by recoil, and it was intented to use it in several design of light weight vehicles.

The design was good but no enough wolfram to use it.

Spzb 41 in armored car.

03-06-2007, 12:25 AM	#257
Civettone Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Limburg Posts: 1,299	Does anyone have data on the amounts of metals used on German tanks. These are usually provided by Datenblatten. I have one of the Pz IVF but it doesn't mean much when you cannot compare. Kris __________________

03-19-2007, 10:09 PM	#259
CharlesBronson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cordoba - Argentina Posts: 3,150	Panzerbeobachtungwagen Panther: Until 1943 the advanced artillery observers were doing his work from armored cars and light halftracks, that vehicles had a very low survivality in the battlefield . A more heavy and well protected panzer was needed. The Panther Beobachtungwagen (Artillery observation vehicle) was proposed to this task, it had a modified turret mounting wooden dummy gun and ball-mounted 7.92mm MG34. Mounted with additional observation devices designed by the firm Anschutz ( today famous for his small caliber high presition rifles and CO2 guns) wich includes map tables optical rangefinders and goniometric measuring devices. Also it had a more powerful Fug radio equipment and other designed to talk with aicrafts. Although no combat photo of a Panther Beo was know the german sources claimed that 41 were converted from Panthers returned for repairs in late 1944/45 and used in both fronts. Profiles from. Panther variants, Jentz/Doyle Osprey Military. Panther Variants in Color, Waldemar Trojka, kagero Militaria. Panther, Armor At War series, Anderson/wai, Concord Publishing. __________________ YouTube - Bronson's Videosl Last edited by CharlesBronson; 03-19-2007 at 10:17 PM.

03-21-2007, 11:52 PM	#263
Civettone Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Limburg Posts: 1,299	Yes, I was. That Pz IF (or VK 1801) is rather enigmatic. Can't think of any tank that has its weight more than tripled. I think it had more potential than was credited. With a MK it could have been a good recon, with a Stummelkanone a good StuG and later a good tank hunter with a RPzB. Kris __________________

03-22-2007, 09:55 PM	#264
CharlesBronson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cordoba - Argentina Posts: 3,150	Posible, but just had that pair or armored MG 34s. __________________ YouTube - Bronson's Videosl

03-23-2007, 10:01 AM	#265
Civettone Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Limburg Posts: 1,299	Thanks Charles. Do you have some more information on how these babies performed on the battlefield. I seem to recall that the few that were built were used on the Ostfront. I can imagine them doing ok but the lack in firepower would have meant they were of little value. Kris __________________

02-27-2007, 10:51 PM	#256
HealzDevo Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Queensland Posts: 1,251	Looks like that was an interesting German tank.

03-20-2007, 09:37 PM	#261
HealzDevo Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Queensland Posts: 1,251	Oh, well I suppose it seems a lot of information was lost at the end of WWII. Perhaps it was lost then, the data that you seek...

03-23-2007, 05:38 PM	#266
CharlesBronson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cordoba - Argentina Posts: 3,150	Some were used by Pz Div in the Eastern Fornt, I guess for partisan cleaning mostly. __________________ YouTube - Bronson's Videosl Last edited by CharlesBronson; 03-23-2007 at 05:42 PM.

03-23-2007, 11:22 PM	#267
HealzDevo Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Queensland Posts: 1,251	Would probably have been effective. Artillery the site and then machine gun down anyone running from the scene...

03-24-2007, 01:35 PM	#268
CharlesBronson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cordoba - Argentina Posts: 3,150	There was also some other variations of this uparmored Pz I and Pz II: Lexikon der Wehrmacht - Panzer 2 Ausführung M Panzer II Ausf. H (PzKpfw IIH) This vehicles were not more that experimental tanks, the heavy need of real combat tanks like Pz III/IV/V deny further development. __________________ YouTube - Bronson's Videosl

03-25-2007, 12:47 PM	#269
Civettone Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Limburg Posts: 1,299	That was really interesting! Thanks !! I also noticed that the Pz IIM had a 28mm gun. IIRC, that was one of those tapered guns with the rare tungsten cored ammunition. I suppose that would have ended the program in the end. The Pz IIH seems more enigmatic but I suppose the Pz IIL was better protected. Kris __________________ Last edited by Civettone; 03-25-2007 at 12:51 PM.

03-25-2007, 03:36 PM	#270
CharlesBronson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cordoba - Argentina Posts: 3,150	Yea, the 2,8cm kwk 42 mentioned in the Lexikon site is a projeckt called "Maschinenkanone MK 8202" it was devloped by Mauser, it used conical bore Spzb 41 hard core bullet but with a enlarged cartrigde case to asure higher initial speed. The cannon was automatic , belt fed and operated by recoil, and it was intented to use it in several design of light weight vehicles. The design was good but no enough wolfram to use it. Spzb 41 in armored car. __________________ YouTube - Bronson's Videosl

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