Scoped K98k and Mosin Nagant at the range

[Soren]

pbfoot,

Being the best is not about how many kills you've achieved as that depends entirely on opportunity and situation.

Germany was pretty much the only country in & after WW1 to establish sniper schools, developing most of the techniques used today. The Allies failed to do this.

However the best snipers are & have always usually been hunters, as they're experienced in stalking & getting close to their prey, an essential quality needed by the sniper. This is one of the reasons Francis did so well, besides his targets being sitting ducks.

If you want a good sniper, get the hunters, that's what Britain, Finland, Germany, America & Russia did.

[machine shop tom]

I have owned a M91 Mosin Nagant (Remington manufacture) and presently own a K98, slightly sporterized. I'd like to pick up a surplus MN and compare the 2 at the range someday.

tom

[CharlesBronson]

Thanks for the info on ammo subject.

During WW2 ?

The Russians had 6x scopes as-well, German manufactured. The Soviets bought a lot of scopes from the Germans before the break out of the war.

Roger that, but I think the big majority of soviet snipers used the 3,5 x Pu.

[machine shop tom]

The Mosin Nagant was very popular with the North Vietnamese during the Viet Nam war. It was very effective and was a weapon to be feared at ranges up to 500 yds., according to Douglas Mark de Haas, former instructor at the Marine scout-sniper school in Vietnam, circa 1967 or so.

tom

[Soren]

Originally Posted by CharlesBronson

Roger that, but I think the big majority of soviet snipers used the 3,5 x Pu.

True, however a lot were equipped with German scopes, here's an example with a ZF42:

[glennasher]

I think you're forgetting the US Marines, one of whom, Jimmy Clark, went on to become the famed Louisiana gunsmith. He was a sniper on Okinawa in '45,using a Springfield with a Unertl scope, and had many kills over a half mile during that battle. Clark was no exception, either.

[parsifal]

This is a link for anyone wishing to look at the Soviets claims regarding snipers. It looks a bit suspect to me, but I really dont have much to go on

WW2 Snipers

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Soren

pbfoot,

Being the best is not about how many kills you've achieved as that depends entirely on opportunity and situation.

Totally agree with this, if fact Snipers were often used as recce troops and in many cases this was at least as important a role.

Germany was pretty much the only country in & after WW1 to establish sniper schools, developing most of the techniques used today. The Allies failed to do this.

I don't know when Germany first set up their Sniper schools but I do know that the British set their first one up at Bisley in mid 1940, with two more in Wales and Scotland. They were trained by experienced hunters and the course was three weeks long.

However the best snipers are & have always usually been hunters, as they're experienced in stalking & getting close to their prey, an essential quality needed by the sniper. This is one of the reasons Francis did so well, besides his targets being sitting ducks.

If you want a good sniper, get the hunters, that's what Britain, Finland, Germany, America & Russia did.

Again totally agree with this.

One aside. The two man sniper team consisted of a shooter and a spotter. I know that British spoters had a 20x mag telescope to assist with identifying targets at long range, but have never seen anything that showed other countries using telescopes. Does anyone have any information on this aspect?

[CharlesBronson]

Some notes on the subject of ranges and ammunition , scanned from "Osprey Elite 68, the Military Sniper since 1914"

[Soren]

I think Glider posted that last bit sometime before.

The s.S. projectile was designed and produced to be the most accurate rifle projectile at long ranges, and was the std. ammunition type before the introduction of the S.m.E round which emphazised armour penetration power.

Now about the WW1 snipers, remember they were all firing flat based spitzers and were using scopes nowhere near as good as those employed by Germany in WW2.

[Soren]

Originally Posted by Glider

One aside. The two man sniper team consisted of a shooter and a spotter. I know that British spoters had a 20x mag telescope to assist with identifying targets at long range, but have never seen anything that showed other countries using telescopes. Does anyone have any information on this aspect?

The German spotters were normally equipped with 10x binoculars, I've never heard of telescopes being used for the purpose in WW2 though.

Have you got pictures of the telescope ? 20x is pretty high.

[CharlesBronson]

The s.S. projectile was designed and produced to be the most accurate rifle projectile at long ranges, and was the std. ammunition type before the introduction of the S.m.E round which emphazised armour penetration power

I think the "eisenkern" ammo was used more as a lead saving resource, the added armor piercing capabilities is a derelict of the use of iron core.

About the british telescope:

[wilbur1]

Does anybody know about the guy in vietnam that used a 308 win?

[CharlesBronson]

You man is probably Chuck Mawhinney or Carlos Hatchcok. Do a search with those names ( You know that Soren doesnt like to mix up topics )

[wilbur1]

Whoops sorry