View Poll Results: Best Torpedo Boat

Voters
14. You may not vote on this poll
  • S-Boot (Germany)

    10 71.43%
  • Elco PT Boat (USA)

    2 14.29%
  • Higgins PT Boat (USA)

    0 0%
  • Vosper MTB (UK)

    0 0%
  • British Power Boat MTB (UK)

    1 7.14%
  • Fairmile D MTB (UK)

    0 0%
  • MAS (Italy)

    0 0%
  • Other:

    1 7.14%
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 50

Thread: Torpedo Boats

  1. #1
    Senior Member renrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Montrose, Colorado
    Posts
    4,542
    Post Thanks / Like

    Torpedo Boats

    I was reflecting on how the destroyer got it's name while posting in the best destroyer thread and thought as a follow on we could discuss which torpedo boat deployed by the different navies in WW2 was the all around best. Originally DDs were known as Torpedo Boat Destroyers, which with the development of torpedoes, gave heavy ship commanders nightmares. The torpedo boats in WW2 played many roles and their crews were often a villainous lot. Have at it!


  2. #2
    Senior Member vikingBerserker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    22,180
    Post Thanks / Like
    For me it would be a toss up between Germans S-Boats and the US Higgins. I'll go with the S-Boats.



  3. #3
    Senior Member Thorlifter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Dallas, Tx
    Posts
    7,418
    Post Thanks / Like
    I agree with VB and will go with the S-Boat. Bigger, more rugged, and better suited for duty in the open sea.

  4. #4
    Senior Member parsifal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Orange NSW
    Posts
    8,588
    Post Thanks / Like
    There are really two classes of torpedo boats. There are what the English refer to as MTBs, the American PT Boats, the italians call them MAS Boats, and the Germans S-Boats (or E-Boats). These are small, generally less than 120 tons in size, often with planing hulls and speeds in excess of 40 knots

    Then ther are a larger class of "Torpedo Boat" generally under 600 T (to get around treaty limits). These were ocean going vessels and usually carried a small surface armment (or arounfd 4in calibre) some AA, ASW and torpedoes. Examples of this type of craft might include Hunt Class (UK), Ciclone (Italy) Mowe (Germany) Uragan (SU), and Matsu (Japan).

    The US never really fielded this type of craft, however a variqant of the "Torpedo Boat" concept can be found in the numerous Destroyer Escorts fielded by the combatants. These were generally slower craft, but longer ranged with greater emphasis paid to Anti-Submarine capability.

    So for me, having considered their various roles I would consider the best in each ategory to be

    "PT" Boats: German "S" Boats
    Torpedo Boats: Japanese "Matsu" Class
    Destroyer Escort: USN "Rudderow" Class
    Fr President Clemenceau’s speech to the AIF 7th July 1918: “ we expected a great deal of (Australians)… We knew that you would fight a real fight, but we did not know that from the beginning you would astonish the whole continent. I shall go back and say to my countrymen “I have seen the Australians, I have looked in their faces …I know that they will fight alongside of us again until the cause for which we are all fighting is safe for us and for our children”.



  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    80
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have to go with the German S-boots, also; even some of the vets who served on US Elco-class PT boats wish they'd had boats like the S-boots. They may have been bigger than the Vosper-class and Elco-class boats, but they were considerably faster and more heavily armed.

  6. #6
    Senior Member renrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Montrose, Colorado
    Posts
    4,542
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have a friend who served in PT Boats in WW2. He served on a Huckins type boat and indicated that the Huckins was finished out better than the other types because Huckins was a yacht builder before the war. He was stationed at Midway but this was after June, 1942.
    Last edited by renrich; 06-26-2009 at 06:03 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member trackend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Canvey Island, Essex
    Posts
    4,038
    Post Thanks / Like
    My old man was RN in small craft and had a few mates on MTB's they hated having to go head to head with E-Boats as they were very much out gunned. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but off the top of my head I believe The US PT boats basic design (i think designated PT 8 or 9) came from a British designer Hubert or was it Herbert, Pain who designed and raced power boats. Of the various navies vessels i would pick the E Boat not that they had a much higher top speed but that they could do it in rougher seas so it gave them a huge advantage plus they had a pretty impressive array of weaponry for such a small boat
    The hard chine of the PT and MTB hulls plained well but gave a much rougher ride in poor sea states.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Berlin (Kreuzberg)
    Posts
    2,037
    Post Thanks / Like
    Since my grandfather served on e-boats, my vote is biased.
    Back to the larger torpedoboats, I would vote for the dutch buildt FTB 40 class. It´s larger and faster (35 kts!!!) than the german build FTB 39 class ships. I don´t rate the US DE´s that high, they are to slow (21 to 26 kts).
    ---delcyros---

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Barnsley, S. Yorks, UK
    Posts
    1,907
    Post Thanks / Like
    I don't think DEs can really be discussed in the same terms as the large TBs built by the Germans, The DE was, as the name implies, intended for a defensive role from the outset, with convoys and slower surface forces like CVEs, hence the low speed. The German TBs were, in effect, small destroyers, with speed and firepower to match.

    Thinking about it, the DEs seem to be a bit mis-named. To my mind, they are much more like large corvettes or frigates than small destroyers.
    "Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind;
    and therefore never send to ask for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee" - John Donne, Meditation XVII

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Berlin (Kreuzberg)
    Posts
    2,037
    Post Thanks / Like
    After ww2, all US DE´s were reclassified as frigates, so You really have a point with it...
    ---delcyros---

  11. #11
    Senior Member Juha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Helsinki
    Posts
    3,536
    Post Thanks / Like
    No oppinion on which was the best torpedo boat class but the best MTB were IMHO the later S-boats. Not that they were much better armed than later Vospers when those got 20mm cannon, typical gun armament for S-boat in Autumn 43 was 2*20mm and 2*MG34, it was neither much faster but a few experimental boats which achieved 45 knots they were 39-42knts boats.
    But like Trackend noted they worked much better on rough sea than hard-chine Allied boats. And their powerful diesel engines made them less vulnerable. I liked especially those with armoured cabin a la S100.

    Juha
    Last edited by Juha; 06-26-2009 at 02:35 PM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    5,884
    Post Thanks / Like
    Generally speaking I think its fair to say that the best torpedo boat design was the S Boat, however they were not always the best equipped. Radar was rare on these vessels and was often second hand modified airborne interception radar taken off nightfighters as they became outdated.
    From 1942 onwards they started to lose their advantage of firepower as the RN introduced the 6pd onto their MTB's and towards the end of the war the USN started to introduce a quad 20mm mounting nicknamed if I recall the lightning.

    That said, overall the S Boat has the nod as they had a clear advantage in the first 2 -3 years of the war when the gap started to close.

    I would give the Fairmile D class known as the Dog Boats a close second. They were a fair bit slower than most but were good sea boats sometimes operating as far away as off the coast of Norway and were very heavily armed.

  13. #13
    Senior Member renrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Montrose, Colorado
    Posts
    4,542
    Post Thanks / Like
    The DEs( destroyer escorts) were designed as escorts and I don't believe they could be considered as torpedo boats or MTBs. They were much larger and many were armed with no torpedos. The USN MTBs were rated at 40 knots but I doubt seriously that they could reach those speeds except in a perfectly calm sea.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    5,884
    Post Thanks / Like
    I admit to getting confused and was thinking about Motor Torpedo Boats such as the S Class and PT boats as opposed to Torpedo Boats which tended to be used by the German, Italian and French navies.
    Torpedo Boats were often lightly armed with guns normally 1 or 2 4in and a heavy torpedo load of around 6 x TT on a displacement of approx 650 tons and a max speed of 30+ knots.

    Escorts such as the USN Destroyer Escorts, RN Hunt class and other sloops, Frigates etc were armed for defending convoys and had good A/S and AA capabilities at the expense of speed which tended to be in the 20-25 Kts band. They may or may not have a set of torpedo tube but RN ones that did ,didn't use them for torpedo's, they fired a particually large depth charge out of the tube.

    Is the objective to discuss MTB's or Torpedo Boats?
    Last edited by Glider; 06-26-2009 at 07:53 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Watanbe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    526
    Post Thanks / Like
    From what I have read and heard from Veterans the E-Boats were the most fearsome opponents. They were besides the U-Boats in the most part the most important vessels in the German Navy. They were to scared to use their capital ships in open combat and the RN kept close watch of them and held strict blockades. The E-Boats saw the most combat, were the fastest thing in the Atlantic and were able to escape danger, they were excellent vessels and weren't restricted to coastal work like many of the other Torpedo boats.

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •