war crimes commited by wehrmacht

[JugBR]

does german soldiers just commited war crimes when they had an order to do it(like in russian front wheres hitler ordered a violent and genocide war against ussr) or they was out of control in the heat of war doing what they want ?

does the ethics and disciplin of prussian military tradition is a mith or a reality ?

[B-17engineer]

I think it may have been a little of both....

[Thorlifter]

Overall, the wehrmacht were only taking orders. Sure, there were some that were more Nazi than German soldier. Now with the SS, I think it's reverse of that.

[Marcel]

SS were no soldiers, they were political terrorists. The Wehrmacht in general were decent people, just soldiers fighting for their fatherland. The SS were swine.

[GrauGeist]

The SS were originally a military arm of the Nazi leaders, and as such, reflected thier twisted ideology everywhere they went.

The Wehrmacht was a soldier's organization, and had a better track record in humanities than the SS. The exception would be the Russian front, where both sides did horriffic acts against each other, and the poor civilians got caught in their midst and paid heavily.

There were many times though, where the Wehrmacht needed to fall back and consolidate thier lines during the course of battle, and the SS (who's manpower would have helped the Wehrmacht's considerably) would open fire on the Wehrmacht from the safety of the rear.

Also plenty of cases on the Western front where Wehrmacht medics went to the aid of wounded Allied soldiers when they didn't need to.

[magnocain]

The two options given are pretty extreme.

[Njaco]

I couldn't decide either.

The Wehrmacht were regulars - just soldiers and sometimes in the heat of battle tempers can flare. No different than in any other army.

The SS - and not necessarily the frontline soldier - were under orders to be ruthless and ordered to act in certain ways. At the beginning of the war these units had strict requirements, i.e., Aryan bloodline, Nazi doctrine - so it was no problem following orders no matter how bloody or vicious. This changed as the war went on and "other" people joined the SS. Rules were relaxed.

But there is a difference between Wehrmacht and SS.

[Lucky13]

I think that SS has a lot more to answer for than the Wehrmacht... But. you also had some Divisions of the SS that earned a good reputation form the allies like Wiking and Nordland....
On the other hand you have Das Reich, Totenkopf, Adolf Hitler and that later "division" that they put together that was nothing but murderers and rapists in uniform....can't remember the name of it....was it Dirlewanger? Maybe not....

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I do not think the poll answers are very well thought out. Sorry Jug, no offense to you...

I think others here have already covered it pretty well.

[Ramirezzz]

well it's a VERY tough issue. For a Russian especially..
just some personal thoughts:
a village near the place where my father was born , some 20 miles southeast of Tula ,was completely destroyed in the winter of 1941. All male inhabitants were shot , women were later been used as slave workers in Germany. Some died of hunger during the same winter.
No SS troops were there at that time.
There're were thousands and thousands of such villages in Russia, Ukraine and Belorussia.
Although I'm not saying all or even most of Wehrmacht troops were cold blood killers, not at all.
But it was not the sauber Wehrmacht as someone could probably imagine either.

[Erich]

sorry but this topic needs to be closed, it will in short time go nowhere with a visciousness that we really do not need here

[B-17engineer]

ok ..

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Ramirezzz

well it's a VERY tough issue. For a Russian especially..
just some personal thoughts:
a village near the place where my father was born , some 20 miles southeast of Tula ,was completely destroyed in the winter of 1941. All male inhabitants were shot , women were later been used as slave workers in Germany. Some died of hunger during the same winter.
No SS troops were there at that time.
There're were thousands and thousands of such villages in Russia, Ukraine and Belorussia.
Although I'm not saying all or even most of Wehrmacht troops were cold blood killers, not at all.
But it was not the sauber Wehrmacht as someone could probably imagine either.

The Eastern Front was certainly brutal by all means. Both sides comitted great atrocities against one another. It was probably the scene of the worst of the worst both sides had to offer.

[mkloby]

I agree with Erich that there is really no value to be taken away from this thread.

Marcel - many of the SS troops were EXCELLENT soldiers, all else aside.

[Amsel]

Total war is hell. Once the politics are forgotten it is what it is, total war. Soldiers are not politicians. The crimes against humanity are vast and both sides are guilty. Every "war crime" was answered by the opposing force with equal viciousness. If one could be totally analytical he could see this for themselves.

The Eastern front was reduced to a savagry that is truly animalistic in nature and I hope the western world has learned some lessons from the conflict.