What went wrong most for Germany? - Page 4 - Aircraft of World War II

schwarzpanzer · 09-25-2005, 02:28 PM

If Communist Countries actually were Communist, that would be Utopian IMHO.

However, the exact opposite is true.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 09-25-2005, 03:21 PM

Technically you are right but the system never works and never will work.

syscom3 · 09-25-2005, 03:56 PM

China went communist mainly because the gap between the poor and wealthy was insurmountable. Hungry people tend to support the other party when that happens. Not to mention the nationalists also had an incredibly corrupt govt.

I remember a lesson from politics 101....."make sure the pesants are fed and happy"

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 09-25-2005, 03:57 PM

Yes but communism in the end allways fails. The ideas are not bad but in order for it to work there can be no social classes like rich and poor and if there are you can not let the poor see what the rich are living like.

syscom3 · 09-25-2005, 04:19 PM

Agree'd. But if youre a hungry peasant in 1946, tired of a corrupt ruling party, perhaps you too would be seduced by communism. Remember, we have the hindsight of 75 years to see it was a failure.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 09-25-2005, 04:20 PM

That is true, just like many fell for Fascism also. You go for what gives you the most hope at the time.

P38 Pilot · 09-25-2005, 05:02 PM

Thats what i meant about Communism being destroyed! Not by nukes, but by the people rebeling against the Communist Leaders! Hopefully it will cease soon.

schwarzpanzer · 09-25-2005, 05:14 PM

I suppose it all depends on if the leaders are genuine Communists, I suppose the only one who came close was Stalin.

Otherwise it's always going to be abused.

Then again, who can say they live in a genuine Democracy when even disagreeing with something or being outspoken can make life a lot harder, or even get you killed?

Also the Iraq protests were not heeded also, I am sure there are other examples?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 09-25-2005, 08:58 PM

What about the Iraq protests. That is democracy at its finest. You are able to voice your opinion.

P38 Pilot · 09-26-2005, 12:27 AM

Thats what the American soldiers died for, so people can spit on them or backsass them. But soldiers one day meet people who apprecitate what they do.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 09-26-2005, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P38 Pilot

Thats what the American soldiers died for, so people can spit on them or backsass them. But soldiers one day meet people who apprecitate what they do.

P38 what did I tell you ealier, please think about what you write before you write it. That is not what any American Soldiers have fought for and that is not what myself or any of my comrades fought for in Iraq. We do not fight to be spit on or backsass (what ever the hell backsass is). What we do gives them the right to do that but it is not what we fight for.

reddragon · 09-26-2005, 04:47 PM

I don't believe the Soviets were ever a true communist form of government. In actuality, they were a military dictatorship.

reddragon · 09-26-2005, 05:25 PM

As far as what went wrong for Germany, there really isn't a simple answer. I think it was a multitude of factors.

I feel the war with Russia was probably the largest mistake. I think there were three things that went wrong, leading them to be unable to reach Moscow. The delay in launching Operation Barbarosa because of the attack on Greece and Yugoslavia contributed to this. Even more important was taking tanks from Army Group Center's advance on Moscow for several weeks, slowing the advance to a crawl. I have to wonder if they could have occupied Moscow had those tanks not been taken away. Of course, even if they had occupied Moscow, that doesn't guarantee victory, but Moscow was a MAJOR hub for transportation and communications, as well as where the leadership was concentrated. Capturing Moscow would have been a major disruption to communications and supply, since it appears all roads went through Moscow. Of course, the way they treated the Russian people was also a factor. I'm under the impression that the Germans were welcomed as heros when they first entered many Russian towns and villages. If Germany had created an independent Russian state, I think they would have had a strong ally rather than what turned out to be a strong enemy. Of course, failure to prepare for a winter campaign was a VERY bad move, too.

Medvedya · 09-26-2005, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reddragon

I don't believe the Soviets were ever a true communist form of government. In actuality, they were a military dictatorship.

Urmm, at the very beginning perhaps, but certantly not after Lenin introduced the N.E.P to placate the people after the Kronstadt uprising.

syscom3 · 09-26-2005, 05:48 PM

Ive always wondered if the nazi's had bypassed Stalingrad and rolled on towards the Caspian Sea oil fields, that they would have won.

09-25-2005, 02:28 PM	#46
schwarzpanzer Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 580	If Communist Countries actually were Communist, that would be Utopian IMHO. However, the exact opposite is true. __________________ Like WW2 tanks? Then please visit the Panzer Front: http://p208.ezboard.com/bthepanzerfront

09-25-2005, 03:21 PM	#47
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 33,152	Technically you are right but the system never works and never will work. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"[/I]

09-25-2005, 03:56 PM	#48
syscom3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 10,283	China went communist mainly because the gap between the poor and wealthy was insurmountable. Hungry people tend to support the other party when that happens. Not to mention the nationalists also had an incredibly corrupt govt. I remember a lesson from politics 101....."make sure the pesants are fed and happy" __________________ "Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?"

09-25-2005, 03:57 PM	#49
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 33,152	Yes but communism in the end allways fails. The ideas are not bad but in order for it to work there can be no social classes like rich and poor and if there are you can not let the poor see what the rich are living like. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"[/I]

09-25-2005, 04:19 PM	#50
syscom3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 10,283	Agree'd. But if youre a hungry peasant in 1946, tired of a corrupt ruling party, perhaps you too would be seduced by communism. Remember, we have the hindsight of 75 years to see it was a failure. __________________ "Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?"

09-25-2005, 04:20 PM	#51
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 33,152	That is true, just like many fell for Fascism also. You go for what gives you the most hope at the time. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"[/I]

09-25-2005, 05:02 PM	#52
P38 Pilot Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Auburn,Alabama; USA Posts: 1,822	Thats what i meant about Communism being destroyed! Not by nukes, but by the people rebeling against the Communist Leaders! Hopefully it will cease soon. __________________ Its better to have an Army of deer being led by a lion, rather an Army of Lions being led by a deer...

09-25-2005, 05:14 PM	#53
schwarzpanzer Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 580	I suppose it all depends on if the leaders are genuine Communists, I suppose the only one who came close was Stalin. Otherwise it's always going to be abused. Then again, who can say they live in a genuine Democracy when even disagreeing with something or being outspoken can make life a lot harder, or even get you killed? Also the Iraq protests were not heeded also, I am sure there are other examples? __________________ Like WW2 tanks? Then please visit the Panzer Front: http://p208.ezboard.com/bthepanzerfront

09-25-2005, 08:58 PM	#54
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 33,152	What about the Iraq protests. That is democracy at its finest. You are able to voice your opinion. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"[/I]

09-26-2005, 12:27 AM	#55
P38 Pilot Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Auburn,Alabama; USA Posts: 1,822	Thats what the American soldiers died for, so people can spit on them or backsass them. But soldiers one day meet people who apprecitate what they do. __________________ Its better to have an Army of deer being led by a lion, rather an Army of Lions being led by a deer...

09-26-2005, 04:47 PM	#57
reddragon Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The city on the edge of forever. Posts: 217	I don't believe the Soviets were ever a true communist form of government. In actuality, they were a military dictatorship. __________________ I want to be the kind of person my cat thinks I am.

09-26-2005, 05:25 PM	#58
reddragon Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The city on the edge of forever. Posts: 217	As far as what went wrong for Germany, there really isn't a simple answer. I think it was a multitude of factors. I feel the war with Russia was probably the largest mistake. I think there were three things that went wrong, leading them to be unable to reach Moscow. The delay in launching Operation Barbarosa because of the attack on Greece and Yugoslavia contributed to this. Even more important was taking tanks from Army Group Center's advance on Moscow for several weeks, slowing the advance to a crawl. I have to wonder if they could have occupied Moscow had those tanks not been taken away. Of course, even if they had occupied Moscow, that doesn't guarantee victory, but Moscow was a MAJOR hub for transportation and communications, as well as where the leadership was concentrated. Capturing Moscow would have been a major disruption to communications and supply, since it appears all roads went through Moscow. Of course, the way they treated the Russian people was also a factor. I'm under the impression that the Germans were welcomed as heros when they first entered many Russian towns and villages. If Germany had created an independent Russian state, I think they would have had a strong ally rather than what turned out to be a strong enemy. Of course, failure to prepare for a winter campaign was a VERY bad move, too. __________________ I want to be the kind of person my cat thinks I am.

09-26-2005, 05:48 PM	#60
syscom3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 10,283	Ive always wondered if the nazi's had bypassed Stalingrad and rolled on towards the Caspian Sea oil fields, that they would have won. __________________ "Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?"

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