What went wrong most for Germany? - Page 7 - Aircraft of World War II

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-09-2005, 02:42 AM

I think it wuold have been a great day fighter. Why would it not have?

Gnomey · 11-09-2005, 08:28 AM

Heinkel He 177 Greif

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/he177.html

Captured He 177A-5 in flight.

schwarzpanzer · 11-09-2005, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdler

I think it would have been a great day fighter. Why would it not have?

Dunno, it had stealth ability, good speed/handling, range and could cary 2 seats and a good payload (3 X 1000) so IMHO should have been used to bomb radar installations and intercept radar-eqipped Nightfighters and bombers.

Perhaps not having it as a day-fighter would keep it a secret?

Still, I'm not sure of it's fighter performance. I have the data, I'm just incapable of understanding it.

Cheers for the pics Gnomey.

Is that the plane on CharlesBronsons siggy?

If so, I was gonna ask about that!

Gnomey · 11-09-2005, 08:53 AM

No it isn't the plane of Charles's sig, not sure what that is.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-10-2005, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schwarzpanzer

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdler

I think it would have been a great day fighter. Why would it not have?

Dunno, it had stealth ability, good speed/handling, range and could cary 2 seats and a good payload (3 X 1000) so IMHO should have been used to bomb radar installations and intercept radar-eqipped Nightfighters and bombers.

Perhaps not having it as a day-fighter would keep it a secret?

Still, I'm not sure of it's fighter performance. I have the data, I'm just incapable of understanding it.

Cheers for the pics Gnomey.

Is that the plane on CharlesBronsons siggy?

If so, I was gonna ask about that!

There were actually 2 versions. A single seat fighter and a 2 seat day fighter. The V6 was the first 2 seat version.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-10-2005, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schwarzpanzer

Is that the plane on CharlesBronsons siggy?

If so, I was gonna ask about that!

CharlesBronsons siggy is of a Messerschmitt Me-264/6m which is the 6 engined version of the Me-264.

Here is some info on the 4 engined version. I dont believe any 6 engined versions were completed but I may be wrong.

Type: Ultra Long Range Bomber
Origin: Messerschmitt AG
Engines:
Four 1,700 hp BMW 801D or G 18-cylinder radials

Dimensions:
Span: 43m
Length: 20.90m Height: 4.30m

Weights:
Empty 46,627lb.
Max. Loaded 123,460lb.
Performance:
Max. Speed: 565km/h (351mph)
Max range at 217mph 9,321 miles

Gnomey · 11-10-2005, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Quote:

Originally Posted by schwarzpanzer

Is that the plane on CharlesBronsons siggy?

If so, I was gonna ask about that!

CharlesBronsons siggy is of a Messerschmitt Me-264/6m which is the 6 engined version of the Me-264.

Here is some info on the 4 engined version. I dont believe any 6 engined versions were completed but I may be wrong.

Type: Ultra Long Range Bomber
Origin: Messerschmitt AG
Engines:
Four 1,700 hp BMW 801D or G 18-cylinder radials

Dimensions:
Span: 43m
Length: 20.90m Height: 4.30m

Weights:
Empty 46,627lb.
Max. Loaded 123,460lb.
Performance:
Max. Speed: 565km/h (351mph)
Max range at 217mph 9,321 miles

Thought I recognised it from somewhere. I had a look last night and found the ME264 which I thought was it but it only has 4 engines, thanks for clearing that up Alder.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-10-2005, 01:50 PM

There was the design work done for the Me-264/6m however I do not believe a prototype was built. The Me-264/6m had 6 engines instead of 4.

schwarzpanzer · 11-11-2005, 09:25 PM

DerAdler:

Quote:

There were actually 2 versions. A single seat fighter and a 2 seat day fighter. The V6 was the first 2 seat version.

I know, I'm just not sure if it'dve make a good single-seater?

Thanks for the Me-264/6m info DerAdler, great stuff!

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-12-2005, 12:24 AM

Why would it not have made a decent single seater?

ChuckW · 01-09-2006, 12:55 PM

Went Went Wrong For Germany?

1) Attacking Russia while still at war with England..

2) Declaring War on America after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor

3) Not settling on specific choices for weapons developments

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 01-09-2006, 01:00 PM

While I agree with 1 and 3 I do not agree with 2 because the United States would have declared war on Germany even if Germany had not done it first.

ChuckW · 01-09-2006, 03:04 PM

Well, suppose Hitler had kept his temper and ego in check and "Hadn't" declared war on America? Roosevelt would have made numerous attempts to goad Hitler into attacking American forces, or even civilian ships.
Hitler was doomed when he went to war with America while sending men to be chewed up and frozen in the Russian Winter.
A Heavy Bomber Squadron, with ME-109 Escorts would have done much more damage(to land and morale)then V-1 or V-2 rockets hurled at indiscriminate targets.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 01-10-2006, 05:18 AM

Even if Hitler had not declared war on the US, after Pearl Harbor the US would have declared war on Germany.

Soren · 01-12-2006, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schwarzpanzer

I'll add another, what about the He112 instead of the Me109 for the BoB?

Wouldn't have made any difference at all, other than maybe an even more devasting defeat for the luftwaffe.

The Bf-109 was clearly the superior aircraft.

11-09-2005, 02:42 AM	#91
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,074	I think it wuold have been a great day fighter. Why would it not have? __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

11-09-2005, 08:28 AM	#92
Gnomey "World Traveller" Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK Posts: 16,510	Heinkel He 177 Greif http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/he177.html Captured He 177A-5 in flight. __________________ "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts" Sir Winston Churchill "To him the People of the World Largely owe the Freedom and Liberties they Enjoy Today" Enscription on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-40) statue in London WW2 Talk: A WW2 Discussion Forum My Photo Collections on Flickr

11-09-2005, 08:53 AM	#94
Gnomey "World Traveller" Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK Posts: 16,510	No it isn't the plane of Charles's sig, not sure what that is. __________________ "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts" Sir Winston Churchill "To him the People of the World Largely owe the Freedom and Liberties they Enjoy Today" Enscription on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-40) statue in London WW2 Talk: A WW2 Discussion Forum My Photo Collections on Flickr

11-10-2005, 01:50 PM	#98
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,074	There was the design work done for the Me-264/6m however I do not believe a prototype was built. The Me-264/6m had 6 engines instead of 4. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

11-12-2005, 12:24 AM	#100
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,074	Why would it not have made a decent single seater? __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

01-09-2006, 12:55 PM	#101
ChuckW Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SC Posts: 6	Went Went Wrong For Germany? 1) Attacking Russia while still at war with England.. 2) Declaring War on America after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor 3) Not settling on specific choices for weapons developments

01-09-2006, 01:00 PM	#102
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,074	While I agree with 1 and 3 I do not agree with 2 because the United States would have declared war on Germany even if Germany had not done it first. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

01-09-2006, 03:04 PM	#103
ChuckW Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SC Posts: 6	Well, suppose Hitler had kept his temper and ego in check and "Hadn't" declared war on America? Roosevelt would have made numerous attempts to goad Hitler into attacking American forces, or even civilian ships. Hitler was doomed when he went to war with America while sending men to be chewed up and frozen in the Russian Winter. A Heavy Bomber Squadron, with ME-109 Escorts would have done much more damage(to land and morale)then V-1 or V-2 rockets hurled at indiscriminate targets.

01-10-2006, 05:18 AM	#104
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,074	Even if Hitler had not declared war on the US, after Pearl Harbor the US would have declared war on Germany. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

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