Who started WW2?

Bullockracing · 05-19-2006, 04:16 PM

The Pacific theater of WWII was actually started by the US, with Commodore Perry's visit to Japan. He sailed military vessels into Japanese homeland waters, and the ruling elite of Japan were forced to accept his terms of trade, essentially forcing the US way down their throat. The Japanese did not allow foreigners on their sacred soil, yet he landed, and when asked to leave initially, he sailed further inland, until the Japanese (who were powerless to force him out) signed the treaty on March 31, 1854. In order to rescind this national affront, they adopted the bushido code as a nation, thereby setting the stage for conflict.

syscom3 · 05-19-2006, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timshatz

....
......"Shattered Sword". ....... The book is rigorously researched and a very good read. Heard somebody who's read a ton of WW2 history call it the best book he's ever read on the subject and that covers a ton of books.

Im going to open a thread on this book.

Its the best book about the battle for Midway ever written.

Haztoys · 05-19-2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plan_D

How long have you been here syscom, I'll call you a f*cknut for butting in like you always do. And yes, it was a stupid thing to make a comment about Germany getting blamed for starting World War I ... when we're talking about who started World War II.

Stupid..(eye roll) ...Now I'm Stupid ...great ...

You can not just say ...."Nazi's got into power ..Everyone love them..And lets just take over Europe" ..The Germans started it ...It's not that EZ ...

And if you do not understand what happen in WW1 ...Thats what it looks like happened ...

To understand WW2 ..You most understand WW1..

And a big point is "Germany took the fall for WW1 " ... And the Nazi's prayed on that ...

That's just one of the thing that led to the next round of WW1

Most often none as WW2...

And thank you ...Syscom3 for helping me here ... Who is this guy ..The town troll ... You may but in anytime ...

Plan-D ....I do not want to fight with you ... I do not call names ...And wish you would not also ... I'm just here to learn ...

David

Haztoys · 05-19-2006, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

I actually said something about Germany getting blaimed because it was something that helped in the Nazi cause for the start of WW2.

Thats what "I" was trying to say...

Haztoys · 05-19-2006, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

back on topic.

For the war in Asia, the Japanese see the issues differently.

They saw themselves as the natural colonial master of Asia (remember, after WW1, Germany lost all its territories in the Pacific, many of them to Japan). Their attitude was if the other European nations could conquor lands and colonize them, why cant an asia country do it too?

While they were very brutal about it, they saw their conduct under their own cultural rules.

NOTE - BEFORE ANYONE STARTS THROWING DARTS AT ME, IM REPORTING FACTS. IN NO WAY DO I APPROVE OF WHAT JAPAN DID!!!!!

There was a embargo about or was on the Japanese just before Pearl Harbor

Over the colonizing and all... That was a act of war to the Japanese...

And thats why they atacked Pearl Harbor...

The United States started it ... With the embargo...???

I could be wrong ...

syscom3 · 05-19-2006, 08:05 PM

The embargo's (first scrap steel, then oil) were implimented because of the Japanese agression in China. The "Rape of Nanking" in 1937 was the tipping point of relations between the two countries.

Remember that negotiations between the two countries were often stalled or ruined because of the iron fist the IJA had over the emporer, and the not-so-brilliant state dept attitudes regarding how Japan was really governed.

evangilder · 05-19-2006, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haztoys

Stupid..(eye roll) ...Now I'm Stupid ...great ...

You can not just say ...."Nazi's got into power ..Everyone love them..And lets just take over Europe" ..The Germans started it ...It's not that EZ ...

And if you do not understand what happen in WW1 ...Thats what it looks like happened ...

To understand WW2 ..You most understand WW1..

And a big point is "Germany took the fall for WW1 " ... And the Nazi's prayed on that ...

That's just one of the thing that led to the next round of WW1

Most often none as WW2...

And thank you ...Syscom3 for helping me here ... Who is this guy ..The town troll ... You may but in anytime ...

Plan-D ....I do not want to fight with you ... I do not call names ...And wish you would not also ... I'm just here to learn ...

David

Once again, knock it off. One more outburst from any of you on this will result in this thread being locked. Last warning.

schwarzpanzer · 05-20-2006, 12:46 AM

Dang!

- I was just about to start, I feel like I've been gagged now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by timshatz

Also states that Germany feared Russia to the point that it needed to bring on the war before Russia got too big to handle due to expansion of Russian industrial/economic sector.

I reckon that this reasoning was behind Barbarossa, can you imagine Stalin going 1st...

(Though the Soviet people would likely have overthrown him befoore then, or he'd have already killed any possible Soviet fighting force)

Also the Winter War thing, I feel Britain was (rightfully) terrified of the Soviet Union and Stalin.

- It took a nutter like Hitler to counter a nutter like Stalin.

Haztoys · 05-20-2006, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evangilder

Once again, knock it off. One more outburst from any of you on this will result in this thread being locked. Last warning.

Sorry to get everyone upset

lesofprimus · 05-20-2006, 07:17 AM

U didn't get me upset, and for the record, I am the town troll.......

As far as this topic goes, it was either the Treaty of Versailles or Germany that started WWII, depending on how u want to look at it....

I think that the bottom line is that Hitler used the Treaty as a platform for his rise to power, and used that power to start a War....

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 05-20-2006, 07:27 AM

And that hit it on the nail. Haztoys you are correct though that in order to Understand why WW2 started you have to understand WW1.

Haztoys · 05-20-2006, 08:36 AM

For years I could understand it all....But the German end of thing never paned out ...

England ,,France... USA...Russia...

Even Japan ... If the European can colonize ...So can we ...There mine set was (and still is ...sorry) that there race is above all other peoples...Not right ...But I understand the mine set that was going on ..

Spending time in Europe ..Like I do ....10 + trips a year ..I import used motorcycles in to Europe from the southwest USA...

The Nazi's getting power never seam to work out in "my" head .... So I ask some German's ....And was told to study WW1...

WW1 is forgotten these days ...And is the reason this world is ware we are today ...Good or bad...

More so then WW2...."I feel" .....Could be wrong and there's a lot of different way of looking at it ...I know ...

David

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 05-20-2006, 08:46 AM

I pretty much see it as you do.

timshatz · 05-20-2006, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

Im going to open a thread on this book.

Its the best book about the battle for Midway ever written.

It would be a great book to discuss but I don't know how many people have read it. Only 6 months old and not yet in paperback. Plus, it is a book that needs to be digested and considered. There are a ton of details in it.

On the good side, it is a version of revisionist history that is actually worth reading. Most of it is crap. But this is pretty good, well researched and not politically motivated.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 05-20-2006, 08:57 AM

I will have to order the book for my collection and read it.