New built ME-262s

[Stitch]

Originally Posted by GrauGeist

The Me262s are an exact replica, designed and built with the original plans with of course, the few mentioned upgrades.

It is so accurate, that the Messerschmitt Foundation has granted the new '262 actual production model assignments.

Me262A-1c - model based on the Me262A1-a

Me262B-1c - model based on the Me262B-1a

Me262A/B-c - convertable model, switches between the A1-a and B-1a

Not only that, but they were assigned Messerschmitt werknummern to each individual airframe that picked up where the original werknummern left off in 1945.

[Lucky13]

Then they must be good!

[Yerger]

If you want to be daring, build a Natter

A beautiful 1 to 1 scale Hughes H-1 was in the USA some years ago, but sadly crashed killing the pilot/owner.

A lot of these birds require major skills most recreation pilots lack

[wheelsup_cavu]

Originally Posted by Flyboy2

If you go on Airliners.net and search for the Me.262 they have some pretty good pictures of this restored flying version

Thanks for the tip Flyboy2.


Wheelsup

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Yerger

A lot of these birds require major skills most recreation pilots lack

Sorry Yerger, but you're dead wrong.

Many of the war replicas and warbirds you see are flown by highly experienced pilots, many of them have military backgrounds. For certain recips and jet warbirds you need a "type" rating specific for the aircraft, so there's a lot more training that goes into acquiring one of these ratings. BTW the Hughes H1 that crashed a few years ago was the result of a propeller that came apart when the pilot was flying it back from Oshkosh.

As you say "recreation pilots," I could assure you that the lowest time pilots you might find say flying a T-6 might have 500 hours, so for the most part most of the pilots who fly these warbirds are far from "recreation" pilots. Sometimes many of these warbird owners have more money than brains and crash these aircraft by doing plain stupid things, but in the bigger picture many of these same guys have 1000s of hours and usually hold commercial, instrument, multi-engine and even ATP ratings.

Bottom line, it has nothing to do with skill, it has everyting to do with operating the aircraft safely.

[Stitch]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

Sorry Yerger, but you're dead wrong.

As you say "recreation pilots," I could assure you that the lowest time pilots you might find say flying a T-6 might have 500 hours, so for the most part most of the pilots who fly these warbirds are far from "recreation" pilots. Sometimes many of these warbird owners have more money than brains and crash these aircraft by doing plain stupid things, but in the bigger picture many of these same guys have 1000s of hours and usually hold commercial, instrument, multi-engine and even ATP ratings.

Bottom line, it has nothing to do with skill, it has everyting to do with operating the aircraft safely.

Just to back-up what FLYBOYJ said, you could say that I come from a "warbird family"; at one time or another, my family has owned and operated a Cessna O-2, several North American AT-6/SNJ's (most of which were rebuilt from the ground up by my family) and, most recently, a couple of Waco UPF-7's. My father got his A & P rating back in the '70's, and my oldest brother followed him shortly thereafter (in fact, he now works for a company in Dallas-Ft. Worth that rebuilds gas turbine engines, both flight-rated models and gas turbine generators). Neither one of them had lot of money, but they never messed around when they were flying the 'birds, they always kept the a/c well within it's flight parameters (which is why they're still around). I don't know how many flight hours they both have, but it must be in the hundreds, if not thousands, of hours each (and that's not including all the rotary-wing hours my brother has).

[gumbyk]

Bottom line, it has nothing to do with skill, it has everyting to do with operating the aircraft safely.

I'll second that. Most of the NZ warbirds AT-6's have a minimum of 500 hours, with 25 tail-wheel time. But I can guarantee you that you would expect to do a 10 hour type conversion if you had those minimums, or if you were an unlnown pilot to the instructor. This isn't so much about teaching the skills, as assessing your attitude.

Skills can be taught, but attitude is everything.

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

These new jets can fool me, a great aircraft reproduction. I'm sure it takes a lot of work.


I wish George Lucas would use them for his new film, not just CGI.

[Thorlifter]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Yeah they just started making them as well.

I'm curious Chris, since your in the same country and speak the language, could you get in touch with Flugwerk and find out why they are making P-51's and not something a little more rare? I mean, there are a over 150 flying P-51 and there are less than 10 of most of the other WWII planes in flying condition, sometimes not any.

I'm sure the answer is the all mighty $$$$, but you know if they can sell 262's, then they could sell 190D's or He-162's or a Do-335 or heck, make a Zero from scratch.

Sorry, it just bugs me that we have types vanishing from existance, but they make types that there are hundreds of. GRRRRRRRRR

Ok, I'm off my soap box.

[GrauGeist]

Thor, there are a few outfits out there either planning or working on, some interesting reproductions.

I think it was the Texas Airplane factory that was building a rare japanese aircraft, Nakajima Ki-43 Oscar because they had restored a number of them in the past.

We had a thread about this a while back with some good points and counter-points regarding reproduction warbirds: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...ion-17048.html (World War II Aircraft New Production)

[Stitch]

Originally Posted by Thorlifter

I'm curious Chris, since your in the same country and speak the language, could you get in touch with Flugwerk and find out why they are making P-51's and not something a little more rare? I mean, there are a over 150 flying P-51 and there are less than 10 of most of the other WWII planes in flying condition, sometimes not any.

I'm sure the answer is the all mighty $$$$, but you know if they can sell 262's, then they could sell 190D's or He-162's or a Do-335 or heck, make a Zero from scratch.

Sorry, it just bugs me that we have types vanishing from existance, but they make types that there are hundreds of. GRRRRRRRRR

Ok, I'm off my soap box.

I happen to agree with you; my personal favorite would be a Do 335, maybe a two-seater version.

I'm wondering what they're going to use for propulsion in the replica P-51's; there aren't that many Merlins left anymore. Most of the recent of examples that people have been able to find were ex-airliner engines that weren't originally built for a fighter.

[Ivan1GFP]

If I remember right, the 262s were built by doing a tear down of an existing original in the process of restoration. They aren't built from "plans", so there will be differences.

I believe Flugwerk has a pretty good approach to things. They were already building replacement components for Mustangs, so the step to a complete airframe isn't such a huge jump.

- Ivan.

[Gnomey]

Yeah, they are done really well. I hope they move on to rebuild other classic warbirds that are rarer and not so often thought about.

[GrauGeist]

Originally Posted by Ivan1GFP

If I remember right, the 262s were built by doing a tear down of an existing original in the process of restoration. They aren't built from "plans", so there will be differences.

I believe Flugwerk has a pretty good approach to things. They were already building replacement components for Mustangs, so the step to a complete airframe isn't such a huge jump.

- Ivan.

Actually, because of inconsistancies and subtle sabotage by the laborers, it was opted to stick to Willy's actual production blueprints and revisions to guarentee the aircraft didn't have any potential flaws.

[Stitch]

Originally Posted by Ivan1GFP

If I remember right, the 262s were built by doing a tear down of an existing original in the process of restoration. They aren't built from "plans", so there will be differences.

- Ivan.

Yes; the US Navy loaned a rare Me-262B-1a to the Texas Aircraft Factory so that they could dissassemble it and examine it on the condition that they restore it in the process, and return it to the Navy when they were done (which they did). A great website for this is the Stormbirds website at STORMBIRDS presents the Me 262 Project.