Hope it doesn't cause you too much grief Michael......another good challenge.
**** DONE: GB-37 1/72 Airfix Westland Scout (RAN) - Helicopters / Military a/c of BoB 1940
- Thread starter parsifal
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Not seen that filter on any Scouts, in any country, but I'm guessing it was a later addition, for dusty conditions, perhaps even for just one deployment, or, if the aircraft is still maintained in airworthy condition, perhaps a 'modern' requirement.
Personally, I think I'd leave it off, but see what the museum says.
Personally, I think I'd leave it off, but see what the museum says.
- Thread starter
- #24
parsifal
Colonel
ive never seen that photo before. Thankyou Wurger. I don't suppose when that was taken.....the yellow flash in the nose suggests it was taken some time prior to 1970. The aircraft looks fairly new as well (for example, look at the exhausts...no signs of exhaust stains at all). All these things suggest at least that the apparatus came with the aircraft
Not sure Michael about the date of the pic taking. It's very possible it is a colour pic taken much later and then made B&W. Looking at the white number I would say it could be the 891. So it might be the one from the RAN FAA Museum.
Here is another pic of her I found at the Aviation Photo #0610229: Westland Scout AH1 (P-531-2) - Australia - Navy
Here is another pic of her I found at the Aviation Photo #0610229: Westland Scout AH1 (P-531-2) - Australia - Navy
However the one is dated on the 1970.
The pic source: Search the Peter Keating Collection of aviation photographs : A Flying History
And this one seems to be taken in 60'
the pic source: 723 Squadron History Part 1 | Royal Australian Navy
The pic source: Search the Peter Keating Collection of aviation photographs : A Flying History
And this one seems to be taken in 60'
the pic source: 723 Squadron History Part 1 | Royal Australian Navy
And finally I found the first pic of better quality. Still no info on the date but that's the RAN FAA Museum bird.
the pic source: www.flickriver.com/photos/16118167@N04/
What is more the Scout seems to be crashed
the pic source: Westland Scout | on the roger
the pic source: www.flickriver.com/photos/16118167@N04/
What is more the Scout seems to be crashed
the pic source: Westland Scout | on the roger
- Thread starter
- #28
parsifal
Colonel
Good quality images wotjek. Thank you yet again for your assistance.
The images that you've posted that either can be confirmed as 60-70's images (or at least look like they do) don't have that air filter visible.
The image that you posted in post 27 looks old to me, for two reasons. firstly, the location. The background appears to be the rocket range of the Fleet air base at jervis Bay. I could be wrong on that. But modern day that area has much bigger trees and a lot more vegetation around it. secondly, the yellow flashs in the nose that you see have not been part of the livery for this aircraft for a long time. So whilst my opinion is based on some fairly flimsy observations, the balance is that its a genuine period photo.
Terry mentioned the filter might be something the RAN might have added to suppress dust.....that's hard to accept on two counts. The first is that the Scout would be unlikely to operate in conditions of heavy dust. They were used over water or near the coast in Australia. if the filter was because of dust issues, you would think the Jordanian Scouts would have such apparatus visible. But ive not seen any of their Scouts with the apparatus either.
The second is that it was a field mod put on by the navy for reasons that are now lost. might be, but still not fully plausible. We only ever operated two of these beasts, one of which was lost in the later 60,s 9the wreck was recovered I believe, and is slowly being, or already has been restored....S/N 102) . I just cant see the RAN, as a minor user of just two a/c, making such major changes to the propulsion system. It is more likely that there was some sort of optional extra available from Westland, that the RAN thought they needed and fitted to the a/c. The RAN, as a small navy is unlikely in my view to go rashly off fitting air filters where they don't belong.....
The images that you've posted that either can be confirmed as 60-70's images (or at least look like they do) don't have that air filter visible.
The image that you posted in post 27 looks old to me, for two reasons. firstly, the location. The background appears to be the rocket range of the Fleet air base at jervis Bay. I could be wrong on that. But modern day that area has much bigger trees and a lot more vegetation around it. secondly, the yellow flashs in the nose that you see have not been part of the livery for this aircraft for a long time. So whilst my opinion is based on some fairly flimsy observations, the balance is that its a genuine period photo.
Terry mentioned the filter might be something the RAN might have added to suppress dust.....that's hard to accept on two counts. The first is that the Scout would be unlikely to operate in conditions of heavy dust. They were used over water or near the coast in Australia. if the filter was because of dust issues, you would think the Jordanian Scouts would have such apparatus visible. But ive not seen any of their Scouts with the apparatus either.
The second is that it was a field mod put on by the navy for reasons that are now lost. might be, but still not fully plausible. We only ever operated two of these beasts, one of which was lost in the later 60,s 9the wreck was recovered I believe, and is slowly being, or already has been restored....S/N 102) . I just cant see the RAN, as a minor user of just two a/c, making such major changes to the propulsion system. It is more likely that there was some sort of optional extra available from Westland, that the RAN thought they needed and fitted to the a/c. The RAN, as a small navy is unlikely in my view to go rashly off fitting air filters where they don't belong.....
Vic Balshaw
Major General
Not a bad choice Michael and it looks like your going to have fun with it. Good photo select as well Wotjek. As a point of interest, the Australian Seaking's also had a special dust filter added, possibly just an Australian thing.
- Thread starter
- #31
parsifal
Colonel
I think Wotjek's last photo conclusively shows that the filter was fitted to other Scouts from different nationalities. Why they would be taken off, or at least not visible on so many photos is still a mystery, but it is valid to display them I think.
Very engaging discussion guys.
Very engaging discussion guys.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Just a thought - looks like '891' was very badly damaged in whatever accident it had. Could it be even slightly possible that the museum '891' is another airframe, painted up to look like '891', and just happens to be an example with that filter ?
It's relatively common, or was, for some museum exhibits to painted to represent a different, serving aircraft.
It's relatively common, or was, for some museum exhibits to painted to represent a different, serving aircraft.
- Thread starter
- #34
parsifal
Colonel
"891" is the RAN code number, and is the same a/c as serial number 101 (S/N101). According to ADF serials, the history of this aircraft is
"Delivered 20/03/63.
Arrived as WS101 and later Serialled N8-101.
Damaged 03/64 during landing.
Withdrawn 10/08/77.
To Naval Aviation Museum 10/82.
Restored to flying condition as 891/VH-NVY.
Damaged, rolling on its side in an accident at Schofield Air Show in Nov 1985.
The cause of the accident was an unqualified, unlicensed pilot who tried to air taxi it to another spot.
Static Display at Australia's Museum of Flight, Nowra NSW as 891.
The tail boom, possibly an expired one, from aircraft XV134 has been used to complete this aircraft.
After some doubt on the id's supplied here it was noted in the cockpit 12/01 there was a plate with c/n F.8456"
Its more or less the same a/c, but with a new tail. It can no longer fly.
For reference S/N 102 has the following history according to ADF serials
They arrived in Australia on the merchant vessel "Auckland Star".
Delivered 20/03/63.
Arrived as WS102 and later Serialled N8-102.
Ditched 08/04/67, from HMAS Moresby in Wewak Harbour PNG.
While the aircraft was recovered it was written off".
Its what happened to the "write off" that is a bit interesting. As far as im aware its been retained and partially restored (privately).
There is a third airframe I should mention, though thgis airframe was never part of the RAN active operations units
Delivered 11/08/1964 to UK Army Air Corps.
This aircraft was acquired for restoration at Nowra NSW for the Naval Historic Flight and is an ex British Army aircraft XR603. Although it has been done up in the colours of N8-102 it has as yet never flown in Australia.
Along with it came a certain amount of spares.
It arrived in Australia aboard a Royal Navy, Royal Fleet Auxiliary ship.
On being off loaded in Sydney it was improperly lashed to a Flatbed an the tail boom was damaged enroute to RANAS Nowra.
It will be restored to flight as 892, Registered VH-NVW representing N8-102 (the one that crashed and was 'written off in 1967).
"Delivered 20/03/63.
Arrived as WS101 and later Serialled N8-101.
Damaged 03/64 during landing.
Withdrawn 10/08/77.
To Naval Aviation Museum 10/82.
Restored to flying condition as 891/VH-NVY.
Damaged, rolling on its side in an accident at Schofield Air Show in Nov 1985.
The cause of the accident was an unqualified, unlicensed pilot who tried to air taxi it to another spot.
Static Display at Australia's Museum of Flight, Nowra NSW as 891.
The tail boom, possibly an expired one, from aircraft XV134 has been used to complete this aircraft.
After some doubt on the id's supplied here it was noted in the cockpit 12/01 there was a plate with c/n F.8456"
Its more or less the same a/c, but with a new tail. It can no longer fly.
For reference S/N 102 has the following history according to ADF serials
They arrived in Australia on the merchant vessel "Auckland Star".
Delivered 20/03/63.
Arrived as WS102 and later Serialled N8-102.
Ditched 08/04/67, from HMAS Moresby in Wewak Harbour PNG.
While the aircraft was recovered it was written off".
Its what happened to the "write off" that is a bit interesting. As far as im aware its been retained and partially restored (privately).
There is a third airframe I should mention, though thgis airframe was never part of the RAN active operations units
Delivered 11/08/1964 to UK Army Air Corps.
This aircraft was acquired for restoration at Nowra NSW for the Naval Historic Flight and is an ex British Army aircraft XR603. Although it has been done up in the colours of N8-102 it has as yet never flown in Australia.
Along with it came a certain amount of spares.
It arrived in Australia aboard a Royal Navy, Royal Fleet Auxiliary ship.
On being off loaded in Sydney it was improperly lashed to a Flatbed an the tail boom was damaged enroute to RANAS Nowra.
It will be restored to flight as 892, Registered VH-NVW representing N8-102 (the one that crashed and was 'written off in 1967).
- Thread starter
- #36
parsifal
Colonel
Excellent detail shot of the interior Wotjek.
That third shot in post 33 indicates that the engine decking in the RAN units is finished in the same Royal Blue as the rest of the outer skin. I always thought it would be finished in a dark grey......
That third shot in post 33 indicates that the engine decking in the RAN units is finished in the same Royal Blue as the rest of the outer skin. I always thought it would be finished in a dark grey......
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Good Info Michael, and good pics Wojtek.
I know the reason for that filter system - it's protection against Canada Geese that are way off course !!!
I know the reason for that filter system - it's protection against Canada Geese that are way off course !!!
- Thread starter
- #38
parsifal
Colonel
Ive received the following communication from the RAN Fleet Air Arm Museum :
"Hello Michael,
Thank you for your enquiry regarding the Westland Scout. The filter, or "Inlet Particle Separator" (IPS) was fitted as 'role equipment', meaning that it was only installed dependant on the flying conditions where the aircraft operated.
The image was taken onboard HMAS Moresby during 1966 and a lot of the survey work was being done in north Western Australia in dry and dusty conditions. The IPS did have a slight impact on engine efficiency and power output hence it was only fitted when required.
I trust this satisfies your enquiry.
Regards,
TERENCE HETHERINGTON
MANAGER
FLEET AIR ARM MUSEUM"
He attached the following fantastic image
Look at how many drums this bird is lifting!!!!!!!
I would say issue solved, case closed.
"Hello Michael,
Thank you for your enquiry regarding the Westland Scout. The filter, or "Inlet Particle Separator" (IPS) was fitted as 'role equipment', meaning that it was only installed dependant on the flying conditions where the aircraft operated.
The image was taken onboard HMAS Moresby during 1966 and a lot of the survey work was being done in north Western Australia in dry and dusty conditions. The IPS did have a slight impact on engine efficiency and power output hence it was only fitted when required.
I trust this satisfies your enquiry.
Regards,
TERENCE HETHERINGTON
MANAGER
FLEET AIR ARM MUSEUM"
He attached the following fantastic image
Look at how many drums this bird is lifting!!!!!!!
I would say issue solved, case closed.
fubar57
General
I take it your model will not be flying to north Western Australia in dry and dusty condition? 
Vic Balshaw
Major General
Very informative and great pics and I imagine no "Inlet Particle Separator" required.
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