Bf-109 gun camera

[alejandro_]

I have searched the forum and could not find a similar topic. Khazanov stated in his famous article that Gerrman fighters were not equipped with gun cameras. This was critisised in many discussions. Is there any specific detail on the type and number built for this devices?

Thanks.

[Crimea_River]

Well, I've seen gun camera footage of Allied fighters and bombers getting shot down and I doubt they're getting shot down by their own forces.

[Airframes]

Gun camera on the Bf109E3 on was mounted in one of the redundant MG ports, as the cannon were moved outboard. The early F series had a 'pod' on one wing. However, later versions very often had the camera 'shooting' via the Revi sight.
This is a very broad and loose summary, but yes, they had gun-cameras!

[Snautzer01]

Guncamera

[alejandro_]

Thanks for the answers. I am not sure why Khazanov stated that, I was thinking that maybe not all Bf-109 came with gun camera, especially late at war.

[Dannybb55]

Thanks for the answers. I am not sure why Khazanov stated that, I was thinking that maybe not all Bf-109 came with gun camera, especially late at war.

I seem to have read somewhere that gun cameras were not ubiquitous. The fighters all had the aperture but the camera was an added feature. There was aq lot of demand on the continental camera industry, Maybe only experten were carrying film.

[Maximowitz]

Khazanov was right. Very few Bf 109's were fitted with gun cameras - the footage you see over and over again on YouTube for example comes almost exclusively from Fw 190's. The Luftwaffe used such films mainly for training and propaganda purposes.

[VERSUCH]

I think the fl number is fl.32601 seimens wing camera...
Mike

[alejandro_]

Khazanov was right. Very few Bf 109's were fitted with gun cameras - the footage you see over and over again on YouTube for example comes almost exclusively from Fw 190's. The Luftwaffe used such films mainly for training and propaganda purposes.

I am just wondering if we all refer to the same when we talk about "gun cameras". The footage you see is video footage filmed with a video-camara. As you say there were very few and mainly used for training and propaganda purposes. However, the gun cameras Khazanov refers to must be photo cameras that take photos when guns are fired.

[tyrodtom]

Video cameras as we know them weren't around in the 40s. They had not remotely been reduced to the size you would mount in a aircraft.

Though I think the Henshel 293 AGM experimented with a crude tv camera.

But all the gun camera footage you see is gun cameras shooting on film, then converted to video much later.

[stona]

And Maximowitz is correct. Very rarely fitted to the Bf109,rarely,but more often to the Fw190. I'm not familiar enough with gun camera installation on other Luftwaffe types to comment.
Gun cameras were film cameras that took images when the guns were fired though some (all?) could be operated independently of the guns. There is plenty of footage from allied cameras of enemy pilots in parachutes. This does not mean that they were firing on the unfortunate airman,they would take the film to back up a future claim. After all a pilot in a parachute pretty much guarantees that his aircraft was a 100% destroyed.
Steve

[Airframes]

Most gun cameras utilised 16mm motion picture stock. In the case of US and RAF cameras, this was generally Kodak 16mm gun camera cine film, in monochrome, although some Kodachrome reversal film was used, in 35mm, in the late war period. (This was often 'scrounged' by GIs for use in their personal 35mm cameras, for those who possessed such 'modern' equipment, whereas in the RAF, apart from being an offence to have a personal camera on an operational station, photographic film was not easily accessible to the average serviceman or civilian.)
The Luftwaffe gun cameras, when fitted, used Agfa 16mm cine film.

[Maximowitz]

For some more information and reasons for the lack of gun cameras fitted to the Bf 109, take a look about halfway down the thread I've linked below and then read on.

Gun Camera Discussion on TOCH Forum

[FlexiBull]

Here you go. Well at least one Bf109F had a camera fitted.

Flexi

[Maximowitz]

Ah, but have you got a photo of them installing the video camera?