1946: Best piston engine fighter in the world?

[Shortround6]

If I can be pedantic (and believe me, I can) when was the F8FB-1, the cannon armed Bearcat, introduced? If it was after 1946 the Bearcats claim as the best is somewhat compromised by realatively weak armament. I wonder what the rationale about going 'backwards' to 4x.50s was anyway? Lightly armoured japanese opposition, unrelaible US built cannon, weight saving or all three, perhaps

It could have been a bit of all three, the US had also been working on a faster firing .50 cal gun to the extent of multiple programs over several years. I don't know it if the F8F-1s got the faster firing guns or if it was hoped to fit them. The M-3 did fire at about 1200rpm which means four would have provided the same firepower as six of the M-2 model.

 

[Wildcat]

The most important mission for 1946 fighter was to get a nuclear weapon carrying bomber to the target. Only the P-47N and P-51H fits the combination of range and performance.

And the CA-15

 

[drgondog]

I had a really hard time deciding, there are a lot of considerations.

If the priority was long range escort fighter, the P-51H and P-47N would take it, with a nod to the P-38L as well. I prefer the good ol' Jug out of this trio but the Mustang was no slouch by any means. Was considering the P-82B on here as well but I don't think that was in operation by '46.

The first flight was April 1945, the first twenty were produced by October 1945 but the order for 500 P-82B's was cancelled and replaced by an order for 100 P-82E's in December 1945.

If you want a fighter with excellent multirole capability it would be a real scuffle between the F4U-5, Sea Hornet, Sea Fury, F7F, P-47N (again) and maybe the Tempest as well. Out of that lot I give it to the Sea Fury after the bombs are dropped but the Corsair is REALLY close, and was the better attack aircraft. Both managed to take down at LEAST one MiG-15 during Korea, a testament to good design (and good pilots).

Best dogfighters? Spitfire, F8F, Yak, La-9, the latter two being almost unmatched under 14,000 feet (typical Eastern front conditions). Yak-9U being mostly hamstrung by its crappy armament.

I settled on Grumman's hot rod out of sheer raw performance and (I'm a superficial bastard) brutish good looks. While a good pilot in any of these planes would be able to give the Bearcat a run--some had better agility, some had better top speed, a lot had better range, better firepower/payload etc. etc.--the F8F with its explosive climb rate (in excess of some early jets) and acceleration gives it a huge advantage in most flight regimes. Couple it with four 20mm cannon in later marks and you had the ultimate piston-powered interceptor--and quite fittingly the ultimate Reno racer, though Sea Fury pilots I'm sure have something to say about that.

The P-82, had a wartime requirement surfaced, could have easily resulted in fulfilling the original early 1945 order and available in deployable Group level numbers by late 1945.

The P-51H could have easily reached Moscow from Western europe, one way from UK, Middle East. Ditto P-47N - maybe P-38L. If war was winnable by going to Moscow - there would have been plenty of volunteers for a one way mission. The F-105s stationed at Spangala and Bittburg had the same rules of 'service' for their nuclear payloads in the early 60's.

 

[drgondog]

I'm not sure that the armament of the F8F (or even P-51H) is all that relevant as the installation of 4x20's was not a significant airframe mod - it was pure policy, not engineering. After all the P-51 began life with four Hispano's and the wing thickness/gun bays and ammo storage would easily accept replacement of .50's with the 20mm - with a loss of airspeed of about 10kts due to additional drag for the 51.

 

[Vincenzo]

Lubeck - Moscow are 1070 miles, i'm very surprise if the actual radius of P-51H is (significally) over 900 miles

 

[parsifal]

And the CA-15

Great point, but being exnavy i have to go with the sea fury. IMO a great al tounder

 

[davparlr]

I like the F4U-5. It had good top speed of 462 mph, good SL speed of 403 mph, good climb, and good ceiling. The F7F, F8F, and P47N airspeed performance seemed to drop off a bit at SL. Sea Hornet and Sea Fury lacked ceiling although I really like the Sea Fury. P-51H was a hellacious performer but tended to drop off with altitude.

 

[renrich]

The Bearcat was not developed from the Hellcat. It actually took over the mission of the FM2 which was to operate from CVEs. It was a new design but initially came out with the same armament as the FM2. I am not at all sure the only mission for a fighter in 1946 was long range bomber escort. I believe that the concept of limited war was already alive and the traditional roles of the fighter, especially the fighter bomber role were expected to be needed.

 

[Shortround6]

I would think that an equally important role for a fighter in 1946 is to intercept the atomic bomb carrying plane if you happened to be on the other side form the atomic bomb owner.

Might explain the LA-9 with 4 23mm guns and a short firing time. Lousy escort---good bomber interceptor??

 

[R Pope]

I always thought the Martin-Baker MB-5 deserved more of a shot at production, but it was just too late, no chance against jets.

 

[davparlr]

I would think that an equally important role for a fighter in 1946 is to intercept the atomic bomb carrying plane if you happened to be on the other side form the atomic bomb owner.

Might explain the LA-9 with 4 23mm guns and a short firing time. Lousy escort---good bomber interceptor??

With a service ceiling of 35k it would theoretically not be able to reach a B-36 or maybe even barely reach a B-29 or B-50 carrying a 10k lb nuke. An F4U-5 with a service ceiling of 44k and four 20s has a chance.

 

[renrich]

Actually, during the "war" between the Navy and AF about whether B36s were a substitute for carriers, the Navy postulated that the F4U5 could intercept the B36 at altitude.

 

[Vincenzo]

B-3650 were delivered in 1948. B-29 cruiser ceiling would be a bit less of 35k

 

[davparlr]

I always thought the Martin-Baker MB-5 deserved more of a shot at production, but it was just too late, no chance against jets.

And so too the XP-72. Both were overcome by the jet. Naval prop development continued to a later date due to the concern of operating jet a/c from a carrier, in my opinion.

 

[davparlr]

B-3650 were delivered in 1948. B-29 cruiser ceiling would be a bit less of 35k

Both the B-50 and B-36 represented the last technology gasp of internal combustion propeller driven bombers, as does this sites list of internal combustion propeller driven fighters, so I think the comparisons are valid. The prototype B-50, the XB-44, flew in 1945 and the XB-36 flew in 1946.

I suspect the B-29 with half a bomb load, a 10k lb nuke, would likely be capable of very near 35k altitude. Trying to intercept a bomber operating at the top of your ceiling is a problematic proposition, first of all, the time climbing up there, and second, being basically unable to maneuver when you arrive. And the B-29 was not defenseless, especially against a poorly maneuvering target.

The F4U-5, with an extra 9k of altitude performance, would be a better choice than the La-9.

 

[Shortround6]

It would be better but an LA-9 with four 20mm guns with more ammo might be a better bet for fighter vs fighter combat than the four 23mm guns it did carry.

LA-9 was actually in production in 1946 although late. XB-36 flying in 1946 had engines that were down 500hp apiece for take-off from the production B-36 engines and were down at altitude too. The B-50A had a service ceiling of 37,000ft.

It was posted earlier that the "ONLY" mission for a 1946 fighter was escorting a bomber with an atomic bomb which rather over looks the mission of intercepting such bomber.
The LA-9 may NOT have been the best on the list for such an intercept mission but th emission is a valid one and the LA-9 may have been the best the Russians could feild in 1946.

 

[renrich]

We know that an F4U1D intercepted and rammed a Japanese recon plane at 38000 feet above Okinawa. He made at least a couple of runs. The F4U1D had not nearly as good altitude performance as the F4U5.

 

[krieghund]

I found this speed chart of some allied fighters from the start to finish of WWII

 

[Shortround6]

Thank you,

While it would be nice to see a later P-47 plotted on the chart this chart is also of interest to the best fighter engine of 1942 thread. It took a while for the two stage Griffon to get into service from the test stand but the claim that it was best fighter engine in the world in 1942 (under going test?) at least has some validity.

 

[davparlr]

Thank you,

While it would be nice to see a later P-47 plotted on the chart this chart is also of interest to the best fighter engine of 1942 thread. It took a while for the two stage Griffon to get into service from the test stand but the claim that it was best fighter engine in the world in 1942 (under going test?) at least has some validity.

and the F4U-4