GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I saw a news bit about Ukraine just downing one of Russia's Forpost recon drones, but can't find the artical, now.
"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (5 Viewers)
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Stalingrad had important tank and artillery factories + an important river going through the city. AFAIR Bakhmut has rail and road connection going through or at least near it. The city is not worthless as it has some strategic value but you can't just try to storm/assault it for months without a proper plan.
Admiral Beez
Captain
Agreed, both Stalingrad and Bakhmut are not worthless. But they're not worth grinding away your whole army. At Stalingrad the factories were already in ruins and relocated out of the city. Von Paulus should have been ordered to cover but not enter Stalingrad and instead send his forces to take the primary resource objectives - aka the primary point of Case Blue - Wikipedia. Paulus was supposed to "capture the oil fields of the Caucasus to enable the Germans to re-supply their low fuel stock and also to deny their use to the Soviet Union, thereby bringing about the complete collapse of the Soviet war effort." With this is mind, it makes no sense to ruin your army by besieging a city while leaving the oil fields untouched.
As for Bakhmut, the Russians should have ignored this town and instead held Kherson north of the Dnieper, or if impossible, focused on defending against the inevitable Jan 2023 AFU offensive south to Melitopol.
Ukraine Situation Report: Strategic City Of Melitopol Could Be Kyiv’s Next Target - Ukraine Today .org
Russia is fortifying Melitopol in Zaporizhzhia Oblast, which could become Ukraine’s jumping-off point into Crimea. DEC 23, 2022 Russian troops are beginning to reinforce the key city of Melitopol in Zaporizhzhia Oblast ahead of what could be the next major front in this nearly 10-month-old...
ukrainetoday.org
Melitopol fell to the Russians on 1 March 2022. My bet is it's in Ukrainian hands before 1 March 2023. I know I'm biased, being married to an Ukrainian-Canadian (born in Canada, all Ukie blood line, until this Brit born Canadian sullied the bloodline), but these people are legend. I can't wait to visit as a tourist post-2025.
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Admiral Beez
Captain
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Here is mention of the Forpost downing:
www.rferl.org
In regards to the Stalingrad/Bakhmut comparison - they are both political meatgrinders.
Putin won't give up the assault because it's the only "victory" Russia can claim since summer.
Stalingrad was Uncle Joe's namesake and Hitler wanted it captured at all costs.
Both were/are not relevant to the offensive and caused the respective invasions to stall, consume an absurd amount of men and material and eventually fail.
Russians Launch Multiple Attacks In Donbas, Bombard Zaporizhzhya Hospital, Says Ukrainian Military
Ukrainian forces fought back numerous attacks by Moscow's troops in the east of the country as Russians targeted a hospital in the Zaporizhzhya region with artillery fire over the past 24 hours, the General Staff of the Ukrainian military said on December 22.
www.rferl.org
In regards to the Stalingrad/Bakhmut comparison - they are both political meatgrinders.
Putin won't give up the assault because it's the only "victory" Russia can claim since summer.
Stalingrad was Uncle Joe's namesake and Hitler wanted it captured at all costs.
Both were/are not relevant to the offensive and caused the respective invasions to stall, consume an absurd amount of men and material and eventually fail.
Not really.
To a degree - especially with their recent 'hirings'.
No, not really. Not really close at all. The Wagner Group are paid mercenaries. The Waffen SS was an actual military branch.
swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 3,962
- Jun 25, 2013
Mercenary groups have been hired or formed by other governments than Putin's, sometimes on the false premise that they're not bound by various Geneva conventions, such as in the treatment of prisoners or civilians. This is specious; they are still government forces as they are acting on the government's orders.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The Schutze Staffel was in a sense, a private army.
They were funded by the government but did not answer to the OKW, but rather the Reichsfuhrer (Himmler).
The Waffen SS was a sub-unit of the Schutze Staffel.
They were funded by the government but did not answer to the OKW, but rather the Reichsfuhrer (Himmler).
The Waffen SS was a sub-unit of the Schutze Staffel.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Putin has concentrated his power so much that, if Russia suffers defeat here, an implosion strikes me as possible. Not talking about at the periphery as Simon mostly is here, but literally Russia itself coming apart at the seams.
No matter how it boils out, it won't be pretty, and we'd best be thinking about it beforehand.
Admiral Beez
Captain
Agreed. For starters, it's only a matter of time before the Georgians and Moldovans take up arms to reoccupy territory seized by Russian-backed separatists. Then there's Chechnya, where the locals will likely throw out the Kadyrov clan and rise up to separate from Russia. And within Ukraine, when this war is over the grievances of Ukraine's ethnic Russians will remain unresolved, likely leading to civil unrest. Asad in Syria depends on a strong Russia to keep him in power, so expect a renewed civil war there. Lastly, always playing the long game is Beijing, watching and waiting for expansion opportunities in Russia's Far East - they won't let a power vacuum pass unnoticed.
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Thumpalumpacus
Major
Given your family's history, do they have any insight they have offered you that you'd be comfortable sharing? If so, I'd certainly be interested in hearing it.
That's a big worry, for me; power abhors a vacuum, and the Chinese have at least one long-standing claim that makes me think that if Russia falls apart, they might decide to move into parts of Siberia. There's no love lost between the two, anyway, despite the wooing of the last year or two, and perhaps Xi might prefer that angle, over an amphibious assault on Taiwan. More power and resources to gain, and less risk?
Looks pretty tough either way.
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CAC Woomera
Airman
These things always bring a smile to my face. Even in the darkest of times, humanity finds companionship in animals alike
manta22
Banned
One of Russia's problems (as are many others) is that they have no tradition of self government. Freedom doesn't exist long without it.
