"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (10 Viewers)

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Snowman said:
!!!

www.nytimes.com

Ukraine Aid Bill Clears Critical Hurdle in the House as Democrats Supply the Votes

Democrats stepped in to support bringing the aid package to the floor, in a remarkable breach of custom on a key vote that paved the way for its passage.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
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Paywall free here: https://archive.ph/cXFuH

"The rule for considering the bill — historically a straight party-line vote — passed with more Democratic than Republican support, but it also won a majority of G.O.P. votes, making it clear that despite a pocket of deep resistance from the far right, there is broad bipartisan backing for the $95.3 billion package.

The vote was an enormous victory in the long effort to fund Ukraine as it battles against Russian aggression, a major priority of President Biden that has met with bitter resistance from the right. It was a triumph against the forces of isolationism within the G.O.P. and a major moment of bipartisan consensus in a Congress that for the past year has been mostly defined by its dysfunction."

I'll dip my toe into politics if only to say that this sort of bipartisanship is nearly unheard of in Washington. Clearly no one on either side of Congress wants their name in the history books under: those responsible for the fall of Ukraine, enablers of Russia's invasion of western Europe, and those who could have stopped WW3 but failed to act.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Clearly no one on either side of Congress wants their name in the history books under: those responsible for the fall of Ukraine, enablers of Russia's invasion of western Europe, and those who could have stopped WW3 but failed to act.
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Well I think there are a small noisy minority who do ... but let's not take that any further.

It is good news that this might finally be moving in the right direction again.
 
That didn't take long:

GLg1oEIXIAAjizY?format=png&name=900x900.png
 
Some damage from the strike a few days ago to a russian air base in northern Crimea. It make sense to hit SAM sites along the route to ambush the Tu-22:

www.twz.com

Major Damage At Russian Airbase In Crimea After Ukrainian Attack

Reports of destruction at the airbase, which was also home to an S-400/S-300 air defense system, are supported by satellite imagery.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
 
GrauGeist said:
Gawd...these recent articles proclaiming Ukraine doomed because U.S. witholding aid - it's as if the U.S. is the sole source of support and it completely pushes amazing efforts from other nations under the rug, which is shameful, to be honest.

Here a summary of EU assistance to Ukraine for the month of April (in .PDF format, 2 pages):

Click to expand...

However - on a per population and as a percentage of GDP the US is FAR behind some of the European nations and, because it has a far bigger economy than anywhere in Europe, its lack of support is far greater than an equivalent lack of support from say Lichtenstein.

If US aid matched the percentage of GBP that Balkans states have provided the Ukrainians would have more F-16s than they could handle and war would be a whole different picture in every way.

Even if US aid was only half that support the war would be going far far worse for Putin.
 
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MiTasol said:
However - on a per population and as a percentage of GDP the US is FAR behind some of the European nations and, because it has a far bigger economy than anywhere in Europe, its lack of support is far greater than an equivalent lack of support from say Lichtenstein.

If US aid matched the percentage of GBP that Balkans states have provided the Ukrainians would have more F-16s than they could handle and war would be a whole different picture in every way.

Even if US aid was only half that support the war would be going far far worse for Putin.
Click to expand...
Okay, I will play the role of the contrarian.

Here is a quote from the NATO website:

The combined wealth of the non-US Allies, measured in GDP, is almost equal to that of the United States. However, non-US Allies together spend less than half of what the United States spends on defence. This imbalance has been a constant, with variations, throughout the history of the Alliance and has grown more pronounced since the tragic events of 11 September 2001, after which the United States significantly increased its defence spending. The volume of US defence expenditure represents approximately two thirds of the defence spending of the Alliance as a whole. However, this is not the amount that the United States contributes to the operational running of NATO, which is shared with all Allies according to the principle of common funding. Moreover, US defence spending also covers commitments outside the Euro-Atlantic area. It should be noted, nonetheless, that the Alliance relies on the United States for the provision of some essential capabilities, regarding for instance, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance; air-to-air refuelling; ballistic missile defence; and airborne electromagnetic warfare.

Do the countries that are contributing higher than normal amounts have commitments all over the planet?

Do any of these countries contribute aid anywhere else on the planet?

Our "population" is up an estimated 12 million from illegals, of which untold amounts of funding is going to them. Is anyone giving us money for that? Crime is up huge, as is drug trafficking across our southern border. Anyone "helping us with that?

This has no political party attached to it, just stating what's going on (not why).

I'm a retired military veteran. The VA healthcare rarely gets positive reviews for a reason. When do we get our house in order?

I'm just asking what I think are the obvious questions since the undercurrent seems to always be the US needs to do more.

Personally I think we should help out the UKRs, but would like oversight of where that money is going.

Cheers,
Biff
 
BiffF15 said:
Okay, I will play the role of the contrarian.

Here is a quote from the NATO website:

The combined wealth of the non-US Allies, measured in GDP, is almost equal to that of the United States. However, non-US Allies together spend less than half of what the United States spends on defence. This imbalance has been a constant, with variations, throughout the history of the Alliance and has grown more pronounced since the tragic events of 11 September 2001, after which the United States significantly increased its defence spending. The volume of US defence expenditure represents approximately two thirds of the defence spending of the Alliance as a whole. However, this is not the amount that the United States contributes to the operational running of NATO, which is shared with all Allies according to the principle of common funding. Moreover, US defence spending also covers commitments outside the Euro-Atlantic area. It should be noted, nonetheless, that the Alliance relies on the United States for the provision of some essential capabilities, regarding for instance, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance; air-to-air refuelling; ballistic missile defence; and airborne electromagnetic warfare.

Do the countries that are contributing higher than normal amounts have commitments all over the planet?

Do any of these countries contribute aid anywhere else on the planet?

Our "population" is up an estimated 12 million from illegals, of which untold amounts of funding is going to them. Is anyone giving us money for that? Crime is up huge, as is drug trafficking across our southern border. Anyone "helping us with that?

This has no political party attached to it, just stating what's going on (not why).

I'm a retired military veteran. The VA healthcare rarely gets positive reviews for a reason. When do we get our house in order?

I'm just asking what I think are the obvious questions since the undercurrent seems to always be the US needs to do more.

Personally I think we should help out the UKRs, but would like oversight of where that money is going.

Cheers,
Biff
Click to expand...
I think you put that quite nicely, and i think it is true.
Good thing is that most Europe countries have been shaken awake. Long due but ok. Time to hold our own trousers.
I do understand that for the USA it was/is favourable for the USA in many ways. Politcal, selling arms etc.
But now Europe has more or less unified and can compete as a whole and will be a player.
A bigger one.
There will also be an internal market that get a nudge in front. Europe arms makers are no beginners and with funding it could make some competition.
So it will interesting to see how powers to be in the USA will react. And i mean industry.
And how it will play congress and how less bumby roads are there to finance together with europe, the Ukr. With us guns tanks bombs etc. Aslong as they will keep ordering paying and not producing themselfs.
I might have seen the first sign in freeing money.
 
You're right. Our politicians in Europe fell back into some kind of appeasement policy vs Putin. Did not work just like it failed pre-WW2 with Hitler.
This kind of policy never works vs dictators, they'll always outplay you and results in a way bigger boom than if you had stood up to them earlier.
 
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