B-25 weapons thread

[Micdrow]

Reaction to the B-25H arriving with the 405th Bomb Squadron or Green Dragons.

 

[Micdrow]

Another interesting view from the 405th bomb squadron on what they thought of Pappy Gunn's parafrag bomb rack.

 

[fubar57]

Odd that they thought there was too much strain for one pilot yet it was common in the RAF

 

[Micdrow]

Odd that they thought there was too much strain for one pilot yet it was common in the RAF

From reading it seems a lot of missions where up to 8 hours long due to the distance. I am guessing the big reason for stress was the tropical storms that appeared out of no where. In the Pacific they had tents, bully beef and powered eggs and tea if lucky. Most Americans in the early years of the war lost weight due to the meager diet and jungle diseases and yet still had to fly.

From what I have read most bomber crews in Britain ate well, had places to go to relax and such.

Just my two cents on why they preferred two in the cockpit and difference in wars.

 

[MIflyer]

I recall reading that in the CBI it was common practice to fly B-25's with only one pilot and one or two gunners.

But at that time in the Pacific the emphasis was on very low altitude attacks and that would have been more trying for only one pilot. The B-25H pilot was essentially a fighter pilot, flying the airplane, shooting the guns and dropping the bombs. A-20 pilots did the exact same thing but presumably had shorter missions.

 

[Micdrow]

Another reason why crews in the Pacific did not like the B-25G and H models was they had to fly higher giving off a better target for the Japanese gunners. They preferred to stay low and you could not do that as well with the 75mm cannon and a good crew was lucky to get 2 or three shots off. Most pilots thought the 14 fifty caliber machine guns or 10 fifty's depending on model did more damage and needed less experience to hit a target. There are many stories of B-25's coming home with Japanese flags, palm leaves, cables and such imbedded in the aircraft after they hit it because they where flying so low. Some aircraft even had sea shells in the oil coolers. One aircraft even came back with notes from a ships log that had blown up while plane was over the ship and had part of the papers in the intakes.

 

[Micdrow]

Needless to say not all low level stafers were lucky to return after hitting something as this story shows from 90 Bomb Squadron.

 

[Micdrow]

Interesting enough I found another B-25H model with a patch over the 75mm gun. Source the web.

North American B-25H-1-NA (S/N 43-4167) at Eagle Farm, Australia, in November 1943.

 

[Micdrow]

Haven't found much info on this so far but 38th bomb group with a few squadrons really seem to not like the 75mm cannon and replaced it with twin 50 caliber machine guns in its place. Source web for pictures below.

 

[Micdrow]

Another reason why crews in the Pacific did not like the B-25G and H models was they had to fly higher giving off a better target for the Japanese gunners. They preferred to stay low and you could not do that as well with the 75mm cannon and a good crew was lucky to get 2 or three shots off. Most pilots thought the 14 fifty caliber machine guns or 10 fifty's depending on model did more damage and needed less experience to hit a target. There are many stories of B-25's coming home with Japanese flags, palm leaves, cables and such imbedded in the aircraft after they hit it because they where flying so low. Some aircraft even had sea shells in the oil coolers. One aircraft even came back with notes from a ships log that had blown up while plane was over the ship and had part of the papers in the intakes.

An example of flying low. Sorry for the bad quality. Best it had. From the 405th bomb squadron documents.

 

[Micdrow]

Found these pictures at the 38th bomb group website. I know in the Pacific they made home made fuel tanks and fire bombs (aka Napalm term now) The bottom right looks to be inside an aircraft but from what I have ready they attached with bomb racks and dropped at the first sign of trouble as they where unarmored. These just look to be sitting. The other two fit the description more closely for both uses but not sure on which these where intended for.

Thoughts?

Link below
https://www.sunsetters38bg.com/index.php/gallery/Military%20Life?page=2#category

 

[Micdrow]

Thought I had a picture some where with bombs wrapped in wire but can not find it right now. Some of the first daisy cutters made. Quote from the 823 Bomb squadron that used this method during the war. Also a report on wire wrapped bombs compared to fragmentation bombs. Still looking pictures of wire wrapped bombs so if you have one please post.

 

[Washing Machine Charlie]

Now that is some mean nose art!

Some different pictures of the configuration of the nose of B-25's. First pictures is from the B-25 book squadron signal walk around. Second to last picture is a B-25 with the glass nose twin pack installed.

View attachment 51446 View attachment 51447 View attachment 51448 View attachment 51449 View attachment 51456 View attachment 51469 View attachment 51486

 

[bowfin]

Just some information on the 75mm cannon used on the B-25 as relayed to me by my great-uncle, SSgt. Jack Murphy, who was top turret gunner on the "Tondelayo", a B-25D of the 500th Bomb Squadron, 345th Bomb Group of the 5th Air Force: Uncle Jack was not a fan of the 75mm cannon in B-25s, foremost because the co-pilot had to be replaced by the gunner. Most crews liked having a co-pilot as an "insurance policy" in case the pilot was injured or worse during combat. He also said the cannon tended to fill the aircraft with smoke and fumes. Plus, asbestos gloves were needed to remove the casings of the spent round, as they got quite hot with a bit of firing. Uncle Jack thought it better to have a nose full of .50 caliber machine guns, as they were more effective for defense against fighters and still could do major damage to larger targets. I also think he liked the .50s because he saw up close what they could do to ships and boats, as he was in a life raft with a Japanese patrol boat barrelling down on his crew when a B-25 shot it into pieces...and Uncle Jack said "...literally...it was shot...to... pieces!"

Now, on the other hand, I talked to the pilot of the plane that Uncle Jack was in on his last mission (where he ended up in the life raft) and he said that when the atomic bomb was dropped, the B-25H models were being trained to take out Japanese airfields in one pass, starting off with 5" rockets, along with the howitzer, then the .50s, and finally dropping a load of parafrags as they roared over. He thought that would have been VERY effective, putting the most ordnance on the airfield in one pass. I forget this gentleman's name, but I can look it up in "Warpath Across the Pacific" if anybody would like to know.

One other thing that I forgot to mention: Uncle Jack said there was one instance of the gunsight equipment mounted for the gunner in the cockpit tearing loose upon ditching and trapping the gunner in the sinking plane, as reported by the surviving crew members.

 

[bowfin]

Been reading a lot about pilots that flew the version with the 8 fifties and duel side gun packs. Problem with this configuration was it couldn't fly very long if one engine was lost during flight due to the weight. One of the most dreaded things a staffer could happen when flying the long distances of the Pacific was the loss of an engine because of the weight.

I have heard this same thing from a pilot who flew in the 345th Bomb Group as well. The B-25D flew back on one engine after its running dog fight. I was told that the B-25J was too heavy to fly on one engine. Again, I would have to look up his name, but he signed my copy of "Warpath Across the Pacific". I met these veterans when I arranged for the Collins Foundation B-25 to come to Columbus, Nebraska. That was the home town of the Jack Murphy, who was the top turret gunner in the 500th Bomb Squadron's B-25D Tondelayo.

 

[Micdrow]

Just some information on the 75mm cannon used on the B-25 as relayed to me by my great-uncle, SSgt. Jack Murphy, who was top turret gunner on the "Tondelayo", a B-25D of the 500th Bomb Squadron, 345th Bomb Group of the 5th Air Force: Uncle Jack was not a fan of the 75mm cannon in B-25s, foremost because the co-pilot had to be replaced by the gunner. Most crews liked having a co-pilot as an "insurance policy" in case the pilot was injured or worse during combat. He also said the cannon tended to fill the aircraft with smoke and fumes. Plus, asbestos gloves were needed to remove the casings of the spent round, as they got quite hot with a bit of firing. Uncle Jack thought it better to have a nose full of .50 caliber machine guns, as they were more effective for defense against fighters and still could do major damage to larger targets. I also think he liked the .50s because he saw up close what they could do to ships and boats, as he was in a life raft with a Japanese patrol boat barrelling down on his crew when a B-25 shot it into pieces...and Uncle Jack said "...literally...it was shot...to... pieces!"

Now, on the other hand, I talked to the pilot of the plane that Uncle Jack was in on his last mission (where he ended up in the life raft) and he said that when the atomic bomb was dropped, the B-25H models were being trained to take out Japanese airfields in one pass, starting off with 5" rockets, along with the howitzer, then the .50s, and finally dropping a load of parafrags as they roared over. He thought that would have been VERY effective, putting the most ordnance on the airfield in one pass. I forget this gentleman's name, but I can look it up in "Warpath Across the Pacific" if anybody would like to know.

One other thing that I forgot to mention: Uncle Jack said there was one instance of the gunsight equipment mounted for the gunner in the cockpit tearing loose upon ditching and trapping the gunner in the sinking plane, as reported by the surviving crew members.

Great info bowfin and what a great man you had in your uncle. Many thanks for sharing

 

[Micdrow]

Documentation on the 75mm cannon being replaced by 50 caliber machine guns from the 823 bomb squadron other wise known as the Black Panthers from there combat reports.

 

[CATCH 22]

Documentation on the 75mm cannon being replaced by 50 caliber machine guns from the 823 bomb squadron other wise known as the Black Panthers from there combat reports.

Sorry to bother you with this: AFAIK the 823-rd BS. was called Terrible Tigers; 822-nd BS was called Black Panthers. Is your report about them or about the 823-rd BS?
Modified a/cs from both squadrons can be seen in post # 249 above.
One more photo (bad copy) of the same modification from the 823-rd BS:

A clear photo of the same modification below. Please note: these are not H-models, but the earlier B-25G with additional guns in the nose and in gun packs:

The unmodified version from the same squadron looks like this:

 

[Micdrow]

Thanks for the clarification Yves on the G and H models. Sorry messed up and you are correct on the tigers and panthers emblems. As far as the report I was reading it was the Tigers.

 

[Micdrow]

Yves, you wouldn't by chance know what these two pictures are of. Top one could be a home made smoke screen or possibly a home made insect sprayer. I had found this quote in a 405th mission report a while back. The bottom one I found on the web as well. Not sure what it would be used for. If I remember right the caption said it was for testing the deicing
system for the B-25 Mitchell.

Thanks Paul