Best Battle of Britain Aircraft

[Njaco]

Have to agree with stona on that point. I just watched an interview with a RCAF pilot who said almost the exact same thing, word for word.

Hurricane for me although I'm LW biased.

 

[nuuumannn]

if they had mounted a few more guns to the front of a defiant it would have faired better

I have to disagree; the Defiant would have been even slower, with even worse manoeuvrability and not very much fuel.

The problem with the Defiant was not anything to do with the aeroplane itself, but how it was used. It was designed as a bomber interceptor for taking on unescorted bombers flying all the way from Germany (note the use of the word "unescorted"). The RAF did not figure the Germans would resurrect the Schliefen Plan in WW2. The real shame about the Defiant was that it was well known before the battle that it was hopeless in the face of single seat adversaries, but nothing was done to remove it from out of a high risk area, such as Park's 11 Group. Surely if it had been permanently based in the north of England and Scotland to attack the bombers flying from Norway escorted by the Bf 110, it would have fared better than it did.

One interesting analysis about the Defiant's brief day fighter career is that the majority of combats the aircraft was involved in where it got shot down in large numbers was when it was faced with larger numbers of enemy fighters. The official figures behind Defiant losses are not all that depressing, in fact, 32 Defiants were lost between mid May and mid August 1940 when it was withdrawn from day fighter duties; and even then this was a knee jerk reaction to six out of nine 141 Sqn Defiants being shot down by a much larger number of Bf 109s. Only two squadrons operated the type in the battle; 264 and 141. 13 RAF night fighter sqns wholly and partially operated the Defiant between mid 1940 and mid 1942.

Oh, and the story of the Defiants being mistaken for Hurricanes - a load of bollocks. This was how the official RAF scribe saw the events of 29 May 1940 when 264 Sqn claimed 37 kills without loss. A slight exaggeration; subsequent research reveals that less than ten of the 22 enemy aircraft lost on that day were attributed to 264. The other thing the RAF account does not reveal was that on that day, it was the Defiants doing the attacking, not the Germans.

You might have guessed; I voted for the Defiant.

 

[Tangopilot89]

Whenever I see this "Spit went for fighters so Hurricane could do the bombers" stuff, I politely ask people to back the statement up, or to withdraw it. Sure enough, no one has the facts to back it up...

My opinion has been the Hurricane went for the bombers because of its guns being grouped more closely together than the Spitfire's, allowing for a more concentrated stream of fire, plus having a fabric/wooden hull meant it could withstand more punishment. The Spit was the more manoeuvrable and faster, so it was better suited to dogfights.

Difficult choice between the Hurricane and Spitfire. Heart says Spitfire, head says Hurricane. I'll go with the Spitfire because I've always been particularly fond of that aircraft.

 

[Jerry W. Loper]

I love the Hurricane, but as any aviation buff will tell you, in 1940, in overall performance the Spitfire and Me-109 were superior to the Hurricane, although not by much. AT THAT TIME. But then, the Hurricane was higher on the pecking order than any other Luftwaffe aircraft, i.e., if you were a German airman over Britain in any German aircraft except the Me-109, and you encountered either a Spitfire or a Hurricane, you were in trouble. Dilip Sarkar has just published a book titled How the Spitfire Won the Battle of Britain, the very title letting you know the point he's trying to make. I don't agree with all his arguments, but I'll admit I found it interesting that 13 Group, Fighter Command's quietest group, had 8 Hurricane but just 2 Spitfire squadrons, while 10, 11, and 12 Groups had a total of 25 Hurricane and 17 Spitfire squadrons, IOW, Dowding put as many Spitfire squadrons as possible where the heaviest fighting was.

 

[parsifal]

Ive always had my doubts that the Hurricane suffered any worse than the Spit when in combat, despi8te its lower performance. to do this properly, would need to know the numbers engaged, and the losses suffered for each type. Perhaps loss rates per sortie would be the best surrogate measure to use.

On balance, it seems the hurricane was slower, had a lower climb rate, but was similar in dive, superior in turn and equal in firepower. Not much to differentiate in terms of durability, but is perhaps slightly better when landing or taking off.

On the face of it, in 1940, there was not much in it, for any of the three main types

 

[Vincenzo]

Afaik the Spitfire got best result versus 109 over the France, i think also over the England, but i don't remember data on that. in MTO the Spitfire came late and sure this got best result vs 109.

 

[oldcrowcv63]

I voted, having fallen for my first love, that high-maintenance, high-fashion model: the Spitfire, but that romance soon lost its luster. Truthfully, it was never in the cards, she was just too fast for me. I then moved on to the pretty, seductive, and somewhat kinky little tart who broke my heart: the Bf-109. I finally settled down to a comfortable, no-drama and fulfilled life with my true love, my humble, always supportive through thick and thin, plain jane: the Hurricane. Puleeeze can't I change my vote? She keeps bringing up the lapse at dinner. I'll get no peace until my vote is changed!

 

[Readie]

I have to vote for my life long love.
The Spitfire is so much more than just a plane to us.
I admire the Hurricane greatly and if I were allowed 2 votes then she'd be my second choice.
Both brilliant aircraft and they saved our bacon in the BoB.
John

 

[oldcrowcv63]

Realized I hadn' finished the post this morning. Repost:

I voted, having fallen for my first love, that high-maintenance, high-fashion model: the Spitfire, but that romance soon lost its luster. Truthfully, it was never in the cards, she was just too fast for me. I then moved on to the pretty, seductive, and somewhat kinky (she always demanded to be on top! ) little tart who broke my heart: the Bf-109 . I finally settled down to a comfortable, no-drama and fulfilled life with my true love, my humble, always supportive through thick and thin, plain jane of the wide forgiving hips: the Hurricane . Puleeeze can't I change my vote? She keeps bringing up the lapse at dinner. I'll get no peace until my vote is changed!

 

[oldcrowcv63]

Always thought the hurricane was kind of a supernumerary to it all. Never fully appreciated the job she did or her rather subtle qualities that made possible such a huge difference between winning and losing.

 

[vikingBerserker]

I agree with you on that.

 

[Aquarian]

Hello all.
This thread was an interesting and amusing read. I am unable to compare bombers with fighters, or even fighters with fighters when taking into account the situational circumstances surrounding them in the battle.

Were I to vote for my favorite aircraft, that would be the 109. Purely for personal taste.

Were I to attempt to compare how the battle was affected by all material and circumstances, I would, no must, include Ultra and the wisdom with which it was used by RAF High Command.

 

[Readie]

Always thought the hurricane was kind of a supernumerary to it all. Never fully appreciated the job she did or her rather subtle qualities that made possible such a huge difference between winning and losing.

The Hurricane should be up there with the Spitfire as the fighter of the moment in 1940.
The Spitfire has an obvious glamour that appeals but, the noble Hurricane did everything it was asked to and more in an unassuming way. Stanford Tuck speaks highly of her in his book.
Both powered by god's own Merlin.

I love to see them both fly.

John

 

[oldcrowcv63]

Stanford Tuck speaks highly of her in his book.
Both powered by god's own Merlin.

I love to see them both fly.

John

I attended the Virginia Beach Military Aviation Museum's, Warbirds over the Beach Air Show last May. The great thrill for me was the opporunity to see 7 merlins take to the sky in flybys by a Hurricane, a Spitfire, a P-51D aand a Lancaster. The many radials (F4U, FM-2, AD-4, B-17, B-25 and many others) roared while the Merlins just purred.

Mal

 

[Readie]

I attended the Virginia Beach Military Aviation Museum's, Warbirds over the Beach Air Show last May. The great thrill for me was the opporunity to see 7 merlins take to the sky in flybys by a Hurricane, a Spitfire, a P-51D aand a Lancaster. The many radials (F4U, FM-2, AD-4, B-17, B-25 and many others) roared while the Merlins just purred.

Mal

Hi Mal,

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2nlGN6aS8g

I know exactly what you mean. I love the Merlin sound, it fills the sky.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afdOt1Zvmfc

John

 

[oldcrowcv63]

Sweet!

 

[fastmongrel]

Voted for the Defiant the one and only, the ultimate, the never to be beaten, the top turret fighter of all time 8)

 

[Edgar Brooks]

Were I to attempt to compare how the battle was affected by all material and circumstances, I would, no must, include Ultra and the wisdom with which it was used by RAF High Command.

That is, in fact, a bit of a myth; Dowding was not included in the list of those permitted to see the Ultra decrypts, until the Battle was virtually over. It was largely down to Park's intuition and masterly use of his resources, backed up by Dowding, which makes their treatment, after the Battle, even more offensive.

 

[Glider]

Voted for the Defiant the one and only, the ultimate, the never to be beaten, the top turret fighter of all time 8)

Sorry but the Bristol Fighter of WW1 has that title

 

[oldcrowcv63]

Voted for the Defiant the one and only, the ultimate, the never to be beaten, the top turret fighter of all time 8)

If we are going to talk about top turret fighters, I simply can not understand how anyone could possibly forget to place the magnificent Blackburn Roc into contention, let alone putting it right up there where it belongs, on a shelf right next to the Boulten Paul Defiant. On a shelf indeed. Could it be because it didn't really contribute to the BoB?

Apparently the Blackburn company was too embarrased to build the aircraft themselves and so subcontracted construction to Boulten Paul...

It remains a bit of a mystery to me that the same aviation industry that produced the Spifire, the Hurricane, the Beaufighter, the Mosquito, the Tempest, Typhoon, Sea Fury, Lancaster, Wellington and Sunderland could produce the Roc, Defiant and the Barracuda. I won't include the Skua because strangely enough I feel some affection for that aircraft.