Dinner With The General

[MIflyer]

A friend of mine joined the USAAF late in WWII as a B-32 gunner and went on to become first a radar intercept ground controller and then an officer who worked mainly in the public affairs area. He accompanied the USAF Thunderbirds on a trip to South America back around 1960.

The trip included a stop for a few days in Argentina, and there he had dinner two nights in a row with Gen Hans Ulrich Rudel, the famous Stuka pilot.

He found it fascinating to talk to Rudel, but on the second night Rudel, who had lost a leg in the war, began grousing about it was the "Jewish doctors" that cost him his leg.

My friend replied, "Now General, you may have lost a leg but they lost six million people."

Rudel responded, "If you vill go with me to Paraguay I vill introduce you to someone who can give you the correct number."

My friend got up and left at that point. My friend said you don't sit there with someone who has such a callous disregard for the murder of 6 million people. He assumed that Rudel was talking abou Mengele but it seems more likely he was talking about Adolph Eichmann or even Martin Bormann.

Happy Veterans Day!

 

[tyrodtom]

How did Hans Rudel ever make it to General ?
His final rank in the WW2 Luftwaffe was Oberst, or Colonel . He never served in the post war Luftwaffe, or any other military.

 

[buffnut453]

Rudel was an ardent and unapologetic Nazi.

 

[MIflyer]

Yes, at the end of his book, Stuka Pilot, that comes out loud and clear. I ran across a new reprint of that book back 20 years ago or so, bought it, and sent it to my friend. He had not read it before. If he had, before dining with Rudel, he would not have been so surprised.

 

[tyrodtom]

Did Rudel promote himself to general ?
.

 

[MIflyer]

Well, here, read about him yourself. His book is available for free download.

Rudel Hans Ulrich Stuka Pilot : rudel hans ulrich : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[tyrodtom]

I read that book, the original edition, probably 20 years ago.

 

[Gnomey]

Interesting story. A large number of fascists ended up in South America after the war but numerous means.

 

[GrauGeist]

Many years ago, I had asked our family friend, a former Luftwaffe pilot, about his thoughts on Rudel and his opinion was not flattering at all.
He acknowledged Rudel's feats as being extraordinary but added that his political fanaticism tarnished those accomplishments and "the idiot should keep his mouth shut".

 

[Hansie Bloeckmann]

Many years ago, I had asked our family friend, a former Luftwaffe pilot, about his thoughts on Rudel and his opinion was not flattering at all.
He acknowledged Rudel's feats as being extraordinary but added that his political fanaticism tarnished those accomplishments and "the idiot should keep his mouth shut".

Well, Rudel had a great "role model" to copy with "Fettig Bubi" Herman Goering-- Who often shot off his mouth without thinking of the consequences to follow- In "Fat Boy's" case, it might have been all the drugs he was hooked on by WW2--similar in scope to those other Nazis who were drug addicts-- Moving back to WW1- Ernest Udet was a dinner guest of Baron Von Blixen--sometime in the 1920's- in Africa. "Blix" was one of the first White Hunters to lead safari groups-- and he was once married to the Danish heiress who later wrote- "Out of Africa"-- At dinner, they were discussing driven bird shooting- and Dick Cooper, a guest and British Officer talked about that form of shooting flying, and compared it to the downing of 3 German aircraft in 1917 in France-- Unknown to Cooper or Von Blixen, the three Fokkers that went down to ground MG fire were part of Udet's squadron, and up until then, Udet had assumed that they were shot down by British aircraft, not ground fire. Needless to say, things became a tad chilly over the brandy and cigars conversation. According to the details provided by Col. Cooper, he was using a British double express rifle. not a Vickers MG-- Strange, hard to believe, but Hemingway, who was a friend and hunting companion with "Blix" and Dick Cooper in Africa, and other places as well, "Blix" could shoot driven partridge on the wing with a .450 No. 2 express rifle (shot load unknown)-- and some keen wingshots with shotguns we actually employed on both sides to bring down the message-carrying homing pigeons. Hard to believe, but I believe it.

From what I have read, I believe Baron Manfred Von Richtofen's red Fokker also fell to ground fire, and not from a Spad or Sopwith aircraft. And after his tragic death, Hermann Goering became squadron leader. Can anyone else verify all this, possibly with additional insight??

 

[Airframes]

Yes, it was argued at the time, and since proven, or at least accepted, that von Richtofen was brought down by a fatal shot from an Australian Lewis gun team. and not by Capt. Roy Brown in his Camel.
Goering did indeed take command of Jasta 2.

 

[GrauGeist]

Captain Brown attacked von Richthofen from behind and above, but the bullet that killed Manfred had entered under his right armpit and exited his left breast, which would have entered the Fokker's starboard side of the fuselage traveling slightly upward.

 

[MIflyer]

At what altitude was the Baron flying? That would have been a hell of a slant range given that angle.

 

[GrauGeist]

Not sure of his altitude, but he was flying low over the Australian lines in pursuit of Lt. May, who had attacked his cousin, Lt. Wolfram von Richthofen shortly before Manfred was shot.

 

[rednev]

Yes, it was argued at the time, and since proven, or at least accepted, that von Richtofen was brought down by a fatal shot from an Australian Lewis gun team. and not by Capt. Roy Brown in his Camel.
Goering did indeed take command of Jasta 2.

Wilhelm Reinhard took command following the barons death Goering took over following Reinhards death in july.. prior to that he had served with jastas 5 26 and 27 .

 

[Tieleader]

At what altitude was the Baron flying? That would have been a hell of a slant range given that angle.

Here's a forum listing that nay be of help.
Who do you think shot down the Red Baron?

 

[GrauGeist]

Here is a great paper that addresses the incident and examines all aspects.
The author is not only a pilot, but a well lettered surgeon, both in private practice and a veteran combat surgeon with experience in .303 wounds.

richthofen

 

[tyrodtom]

We should change this thread title to " Dinner with the Colonel " Hans Ulrich Rudel was never a general.

 

[Hansie Bloeckmann]

Yes, it was argued at the time, and since proven, or at least accepted, that von Richtofen was brought down by a fatal shot from an Australian Lewis gun team. and not by Capt. Roy Brown in his Camel.
Goering did indeed take command of Jasta 2.

Thanks for the confirmation AF

 

[parsifal]

Rudel

Brilliant pilot and soldier, otherwise a deeply flawed human being. He should have suffered the same fate as Eichmann.