Nonskimmer
Captain
True enough.
Me-262
- Thread starter Crazy
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Karaya_1
Airman
Hi, I just discovered this great board….the Me 262 is my favourite a/c for over 20 years now and so I would like to add some things to your interesting discussion.
1. The first jet plane was the Heinkel He 178 (first flight 27. August 1939)
2. The Me 262 was a great interceptor, but not suited for dogfights. It's turn radius was much too small to come up with a P-51 or Spitfire. (Try it on the very realistic Il-2 flight simulator and you will see)
3. Forget about the old rumor about Hitler and his blame about the delay of the 262 getting into service. Even if each one build had entered service as a fighter, it would have changed nothing. The problem of the 262 was the jet engine…..there were not enough reliable engines before mid-1944, so nothing different would have happened. They might have hampered the allied bombing runs but I won't think of the results and an A-Bomb over Berlin….
4. The Me 262 was a total flop as a fighter-bomber, they had no bombsight for that kind of speed and so they dropped their bombs anywhere, but not on the target (like the Brits did by night,hehehe….sorry for that joking..).
5. The Heinkel He 280 was a great plane, but it was developed to use Heinkel's own He-S jet engines and it had to be modified for the Jumo or BMW and the He-S was to weak to compare with the Me 262 and it's Jumo's.
6. Another question from this poll : EJG means Ergänzungsjagdgeschwader (supplement fighter squadron)
So the Me 262 would have never won the war for us (yes, I am a little bit patriotic
)), because of the engine problem. It might have delayed the war a bit, but I don't think it would have stopped the allies.
I hope I could help you a little bit and if you have question about some german wording I would like to help you !
Greetings from Bavaria !
Michael
1. The first jet plane was the Heinkel He 178 (first flight 27. August 1939)
2. The Me 262 was a great interceptor, but not suited for dogfights. It's turn radius was much too small to come up with a P-51 or Spitfire. (Try it on the very realistic Il-2 flight simulator and you will see)
3. Forget about the old rumor about Hitler and his blame about the delay of the 262 getting into service. Even if each one build had entered service as a fighter, it would have changed nothing. The problem of the 262 was the jet engine…..there were not enough reliable engines before mid-1944, so nothing different would have happened. They might have hampered the allied bombing runs but I won't think of the results and an A-Bomb over Berlin….
4. The Me 262 was a total flop as a fighter-bomber, they had no bombsight for that kind of speed and so they dropped their bombs anywhere, but not on the target (like the Brits did by night,hehehe….sorry for that joking..).
5. The Heinkel He 280 was a great plane, but it was developed to use Heinkel's own He-S jet engines and it had to be modified for the Jumo or BMW and the He-S was to weak to compare with the Me 262 and it's Jumo's.
6. Another question from this poll : EJG means Ergänzungsjagdgeschwader (supplement fighter squadron)
So the Me 262 would have never won the war for us (yes, I am a little bit patriotic
)), because of the engine problem. It might have delayed the war a bit, but I don't think it would have stopped the allies.I hope I could help you a little bit and if you have question about some german wording I would like to help you !
Greetings from Bavaria !
Michael
Nonskimmer
Captain
Bavaria!
I love Bavarian beer!
Ahem!...Sorry, back on topic.
I love Bavarian beer!
Ahem!...Sorry, back on topic.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
some very good and interesting points there Kar (can we call you that??)
welcome to the site, i hope you stick around...............
cheddar cheese
Major General
Karaya_1 said:Hi, I just discovered this great board….the Me 262 is my favourite a/c for over 20 years now and so I would like to add some things to your interesting discussion.
1. The first jet plane was the Heinkel He 178 (first flight 27. August 1939)
2. The Me 262 was a great interceptor, but not suited for dogfights. It's turn radius was much too small to come up with a P-51 or Spitfire. (Try it on the very realistic Il-2 flight simulator and you will see)
3. Forget about the old rumor about Hitler and his blame about the delay of the 262 getting into service. Even if each one build had entered service as a fighter, it would have changed nothing. The problem of the 262 was the jet engine…..there were not enough reliable engines before mid-1944, so nothing different would have happened. They might have hampered the allied bombing runs but I won't think of the results and an A-Bomb over Berlin….
4. The Me 262 was a total flop as a fighter-bomber, they had no bombsight for that kind of speed and so they dropped their bombs anywhere, but not on the target (like the Brits did by night,hehehe….sorry for that joking..).
5. The Heinkel He 280 was a great plane, but it was developed to use Heinkel's own He-S jet engines and it had to be modified for the Jumo or BMW and the He-S was to weak to compare with the Me 262 and it's Jumo's.
6. Another question from this poll : EJG means Ergänzungsjagdgeschwader (supplement fighter squadron)
So the Me 262 would have never won the war for us (yes, I am a little bit patriotic
I hope I could help you a little bit and if you have question about some german wording I would like to help you !
Greetings from Bavaria !
Michael
An epic first post there, Hello and welcome 8)
If the He-178 was the first jet to fly how com it didnt see service? Cos if it was around in the BoB I reckon we'd have been trounced 8)
GermansRGeniuses
Tech Sergeant
Simply a prototype, 'twas the same for the E.28 Pioneer...
Karaya_1
Airman
cheddar cheese
Major General
Ah...shame
had hitler not stopped all special weapons projects for 28 months in the late 30's we would all be speaking german and goose stepping.
an me -262 in mid 1941 instead of late 1943 would also have meant an Horten Ho-18 Amerika Bomber, the V2-A10 (the german ICBM), AtoA and SAM's used en masse', and many more wonderously horrible weapons by '44. this would have led to success in afrika which would have provided germany will all the uranium and plutonium they could ever hope for. i urge everyone to go to luft 46.com. some of the stuff the germans were a year away from was almost martian in appearance and freakishly high tech.
an interesting side note: when boeing was looking for ideas for the stealth bomber they came across files and blueprints on the Ho-18. the files read that on a version equipped with piston engines it was undetectable on radar of the time. the germans would have had a bomber that could reach new york and siberia without ever being detected. the Ho-18 and the B-2 bomber are almost identical.
so in summary the me-262 would not have won the war alone, but the horrors that would have followed it a year later would have.
[http://www.stormbirds.com/project/
][he who paints the sky green and the grass blue, should be made steril.-Adolf Hitler][/quote][/url]
an me -262 in mid 1941 instead of late 1943 would also have meant an Horten Ho-18 Amerika Bomber, the V2-A10 (the german ICBM), AtoA and SAM's used en masse', and many more wonderously horrible weapons by '44. this would have led to success in afrika which would have provided germany will all the uranium and plutonium they could ever hope for. i urge everyone to go to luft 46.com. some of the stuff the germans were a year away from was almost martian in appearance and freakishly high tech.
an interesting side note: when boeing was looking for ideas for the stealth bomber they came across files and blueprints on the Ho-18. the files read that on a version equipped with piston engines it was undetectable on radar of the time. the germans would have had a bomber that could reach new york and siberia without ever being detected. the Ho-18 and the B-2 bomber are almost identical.
so in summary the me-262 would not have won the war alone, but the horrors that would have followed it a year later would have.
[http://www.stormbirds.com/project/
][he who paints the sky green and the grass blue, should be made steril.-Adolf Hitler][/quote][/url]
Nonskimmer
Captain
Yeah, Luft '46 is an interesting site!
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
CC think of it this way, it's range would have been even worse than the Bf-109....................
A
Anonymous
Guest
It would have made no difference if Hitler had not delayed the jet program. German industry still would not have been able to mass produce the jet engines.
The special weapons programs were all based upon maximizing the final technical development. But the technical capability of a nation is a pyramid, the point can only be a certain hight based upon the width of the base. The German base was limited, so while they could produce some impressive weapons at the very point, they were unable to mass produce them. For that you have to go down to a wider point lower on the pyramid.
Germany needed a wider base to their industrial machine if they were going to produce things like jet engines in sufficient quantity to effect the war, and widening the base takes years (10+). With the level of tooling they had, they just could not do it.
=S=
Lunatic
The special weapons programs were all based upon maximizing the final technical development. But the technical capability of a nation is a pyramid, the point can only be a certain hight based upon the width of the base. The German base was limited, so while they could produce some impressive weapons at the very point, they were unable to mass produce them. For that you have to go down to a wider point lower on the pyramid.
Germany needed a wider base to their industrial machine if they were going to produce things like jet engines in sufficient quantity to effect the war, and widening the base takes years (10+). With the level of tooling they had, they just could not do it.
=S=
Lunatic
cheddar cheese
Major General
But if it could at least make it there it could take out a few planes, making it easier for the 109's...itd be a huge waste of planes and pilots but it might have worked.
A
Anonymous
Guest
What, in 1941 or even 1942? They simply could not produce combat worthy jet engines until 1944. If they'd have sent jets over Britian for the BoB, they'd have been staying in Britain. The german jet engines were never reliable, but until about the end of 1943, they were hardly airworthy.
What Germany needed for the BoB was the A6M2 Zero!
What Germany needed for the BoB was the A6M2 Zero!
Nonskimmer
Captain
RG_Lunatic said:
Saburo Sakai would certainly have agreed with you.
It's range was many times that of any Messerschmitt, thus greatly increasing the potential loitering time over British targets.
Not to mention it's low speed agility, should the Luftwaffe pilots have exploited it.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Nonskimmer said:RG_Lunatic said:
Saburo Sakai would certainly have agreed with you.
It's range was many times that of any Messerschmitt, thus greatly increasing the potential loitering time over British targets.
Not to mention it's low speed agility, should the Luftwaffe pilots have exploited it.
It was sufficient to beat the BoB Spitfire. It had almost identical armament to the Bf-109E4, with range exceeding that of the P-51. Thus I believe that had Germany had the A6M2 Zero instead of the Bf-109 in 1940 and 41, they'd likely have won the BoB.
cheddar cheese
Major General
Good point, I agree.
Im thinking of making a poll about the BoB to see which was the most effective plane. Should I do just British planes, Just German planes or all of them together?
Im thinking of making a poll about the BoB to see which was the most effective plane. Should I do just British planes, Just German planes or all of them together?
Nonskimmer
Captain
Why not all of them? It'd be interesting!
cheddar cheese
Major General
Ok guv'
Lunchtime now, I'll do it this afternoon 8)
Lunchtime now, I'll do it this afternoon 8)
Nonskimmer
Captain
Cool. 8)
