Time from 1st Aircraft to 1,000th Aircraft

[GregP]

Thought this might be interesting. It shows the time from the production of the 1st to 500th aircraft and from the 500th to the 1,000th aircraft for 10 major U.S. airplanes.

It comes from "Problems of Accelerating Aircraft Production During World War II," and shows clearly that when the U.S.A. wasn't actually in the war, things proceeded slowly. When war overtook us, things picked up. From B-17 #1 to B-17 #500 took from mid-1937 to about Apr 42, but from #501 to # 1,000 only took until about Sep 42. Talk about accelerated production! Priority changes things indeed. The shortest was the F6F, with the first 1,000 airplanes all within less than a year.

No real statement, just an interesting look at accelerating production.

 

[Shortround6]

Something that changes that chart somewhat is that some of the factories making the planes didn't exist in 1939-40-41.
From Joe Baugher's website

"The demands of American rearmament were such that far many more B-17s were required than which Boeing alone could supply, and the Army Air Forces encouraged the organization of a manufacturing pool in which Boeing, the Vega division of Lockheed, and Douglas would all participate in the building of the B-17E. The pool became rather irreverently known as "B.V.D", after the trade name for a popular line of underwear which had become a household name in America. Production of the B-17E at the main Boeing plant at Seattle was to be augmented by another Boeing plant at Wichita, Kansas. The Douglas plant at Santa Monica, California was to be joined in B-17E production by a new Douglas plant at Long Beach, California which had been built specifically for Fortress production. However, before the plan could reach fruition, the B-17F was ready for production, and the F was the first version to built jointly by all three companies. No B-17Es were actually built by either Lockheed or Douglas."

Studebaker was supposed to make R-2600 engines as of Nov 1940 but was switched to R-1820s in June 1941 before any had been made, despite this change Studebaker in 1942 built 3 in Feb, 7 in March and 387 in June, 600 in July and from Sept thru Dec never less than 1000 engines a month. 1943 saw a doubling of production.

Buick and Chevrolet were brought in to make R-1830s in 1940 (Buick in Oct) and Ford was not only signed up to make R-2800's in Sept 1940, they were given 14.3 million dollars just to build the factory. Building bare plot of ground factories in the Michigan winter in 1940-41 was a feat in itself. Equipping the new factories with machine tools and moving workers to the factories and training them was another huge task.

B-24 factories were also at times bare plots of ground.

The Acceleration in production ground work occurred during 1939-40-41.
Granted a lot occurred later, the Ford R-2800 factory was tripled in size from it's 1941 area by early /mid 1944.
But the initial Ford plant was just about the same size (?)as the 1940/41 P&W plant (after it had quadrupled in size from the 1938 plant).

I would note that the F6F production was sped up by the transfer of F4F and TBF production to Eastern Aircraft (and the transfer of J2F-6 to Columbia aircraft.)

A lot os made of the "waste" of the British/RAF in making a lot of obsolete aircraft in the mid/late 1930s but the contracts allowed for expansion of floor space, training of workers and provision of tools that allowed for the even greater expansion to come.
The US really started gearing up in the summer of 1940. It just took 1 1/2 to 2 years for the plans to come together.

 

[33k in the air]

Something that changes that chart somewhat is that some of the factories making the planes didn't exist in 1939-40-41.

This can be compensated for to some extent by looking at the monthly aircraft production by factory data in OMPUS.

For example, both the Douglas factory at Long Beach and the Lockheed factory at Burbank produced their first B-17s in June 1942. The Douglas factory built its 500th B-17 during June 1943 while the Lockheed factory did so in August 1943; the Douglas factory built its 1,000th B-17 during December 1943 while the Lockheed factory did so in January 1944.

 

[33k in the air]

Thought this might be interesting. It shows the time from the production of the 1st to 500th aircraft and from the 500th to the 1,000th aircraft for 10 major U.S. airplanes.

A number I've looked at is the time difference between the first flight of an aircraft prototype and its wartime operational debut.

The Avenger was among the quickest, taking 10 months to go from first flight to operational debut; the Lancaster and Hellcat both took about 14 months; the B-29 took about 20½ months; the Corsair was among the longest, taking some 32 months.

 

[GregP]

I think a turboprop P-51, sort of like the Enforcer, with modern avionics, could be effective today in limited wars.

They tried that and it didn't "take" at the time.

But ...modern turboprops are more powerful for the weight and size. Modern props give better thrust. Modern avionics make precision attack MUCH easier. Imagine THIS thing above with smart missiles, smart bombs, and digital displays with overall situational awareness. Now think of eight of them overhead when the troops are in trouble.

 

[special ed]

Subject to the same limitations as the A-10.

 

[BiffF15]

I think a turboprop P-51, sort of like the Enforcer, with modern avionics, could be effective today in limited wars.

View attachment 750496

They tried that and it didn't "take" at the time.

But ...modern turboprops are more powerful for the weight and size. Modern props give better thrust. Modern avionics make precision attack MUCH easier. Imagine THIS thing above with smart missiles, smart bombs, and digital displays with overall situational awareness. Now think of eight of them overhead when the troops are in trouble.

A-29 Super Tucano…

 

[GregP]

I helped put a Garmin GTN 650 / 750 system into a Super Tucano, both front and rear seats. Not an A-29, but CLOSE. In fact, I'm not too sure what the difference is except a designation. I'd LOVE to have flown it, but it was a private customer airplane, and a very NICE one at that! The Super Tucano has a 1,600 shp turbine and climbs very well for a propeller airplane, at least at light weights. Can haul 3,300 pounds of ordnance!

Not sure it has all the nice attack electronics when in military service, but not sure it doesn't, either. I suspect it does.

 

[nuuumannn]

I think a turboprop P-51, sort of like the Enforcer, with modern avionics, could be effective today in limited wars.

A little over-engineered when you can do this at a lower cost per production unit compared to refurbishing 80-year-old Mustangs. The USAF is pursuing this as a potential answer to future CAS requirements.

AT-6

How about this? A simple JTAC pod that can be fitted to any type with the right standard pylon. This O-2 is of course a demonstrator, but using the pod on an aircraft such as a Pilatus PC-12, or such like introduces economies.

_DSC2157

_DSC2159

 

[nuuumannn]

Regarding the original subject matter, it is also worth noting that some of the firms shown in the chart took quicker to gear up for production than others and firms like Douglas, Curtiss and Lockheed were already producing aircraft for foreign orders from 1939 onwards, which is not illustrated in the chart. Before it won an order for Hudsons for the RAF, which was at the time the largest single order placed with the firm in its history, Lockheed had to gear up to fulfil the order, which meant a big investment in production facilities two years before the USA entered the war. The same with Douglas and Curtiss in fulfilling orders for Britain and France. An example of pre-US entry into the war production rates, according to a document I read, between 1940 and 1941, Boeing built around 40 B-17s.

 

[Shortround6]

The main problem with early B-17 production was lack of orders. Not lack of factory space or lack of workers.
Not saying they didn't expand and greatly during 1940-41 but Boeing was trying to build the 307 airliners, the 314 Clippers and had expanded the factor (a bit too much?) and took a contract to build Douglas DB-7s under license in June of 1940, first planes were not delivered until well into 1941. total of 140 built?

The 39 B-17Bs were funded in at least 3 contracts, The next 38 B-17Cs were at least funded in one contract. It took from some time in 1939 to April of 1940 to get contract for another 42 planes and it took until Aug 30th 1940 for the B-17s to be ordered.

It was the Army's detour into the B-18 and B-23 roads that helped delay the B-17, although what the US would have done with another 100 Sharkfins is a puzzle.

 

[nuuumannn]

It was the Army's detour into the B-18 and B-23 roads that helped delay the B-17, although what the US would have done with another 100 Sharkfins is a puzzle.

A consequence of the peculiar objectives inherent in pre-WW2 peacetime planning. The USA was late to the party but its natural resources (manpower etc) enabled it to make up for the discrepancy. Wartime combat experience has a tendency to sift out the wheat from the chaff. The B-18 was the USAAC's most numerous bomber in 1941. A year later the B-17E and F and B-24D are in production. Like the Brits building oodles of redundant airframes, the workforce and shop space was available for all-important production later on.

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

Boeing Military
1 XB-15 March 1938
13 Y1B-17 January to August 1937
1 Y1B-17A January 1939
39 B-17B July 1 1939 to March 1940
38 B-17C July to November 1940
42 B-17D February to April 1941
512 B-17E September 1941 to May 1942 (102 in 1941)

A total of 133 B-17 built by end D model production, while 176 B-17E built to end January 1942. Boeing built 240 DB-7B and 140 A-20C in that order August 1941 to March 1942.

Ignoring various other prototypes, 2 P-26C and 23 P-26C in 1935/36. Stearman PT-13 Kaydet production began in 1936. Like most US firms Boeing was mostly building for the civil market. The opposite was mostly true in Europe.

The National Aerospace Library at Farnborough has a copy of the Ministry of Supply report, Rate of attainment of peak output after first delivery, report no 5. 11/313. It gives the first 15 to 18 months of production for a given factory and a given aircraft type, all up 25 British factories. The 18 months is there because that was about the normal time to attain peak output.

The depression meant there were large numbers of unemployed people available in the western allies to help expand output, while the axis powers had close to full employment in 1939. That made a difference to the 1939/41 production expansions. The axis powers had bigger militaries in 1939 meaning mobilisation had a bigger disruptive effect on the economy.

 

[Shortround6]

A consequence of the peculiar objectives inherent in pre-WW2 peacetime planning. The USA was late to the party but its natural resources (manpower etc) enabled it to make up for the discrepancy. Wartime combat experience has a tendency to sift out the wheat from the chaff. The B-18 was the USAAC's most numerous bomber in 1941. A year later the B-17E and F and B-24D are in production. Like the Brits building oodles of redundant airframes, the workforce and shop space was available for all-important production later on.

You are quite right but even without combat experience the Army realized the B-18s days were behind it in 1939.
82 B-18s ordered Jan 28th 1936
50 more ordered by June 1936
177 B-18As ordered June 10th 1937
78 more added June 30th 1938.
38 of the last order were changed to B-23s.

Requirements for the A-20 and what lead to the B-25 and B-26 were issued in 1938 or early 1939 as was the requirement that lead to the B-24. Army wanted Consolidated to build B-17s once the Army got more money. Plans and budgets often didn't coincide. But these things take time.

 

[nuuumannn]

Plans and budgets often didn't coincide. But these things take time.

Yup, peacetime. If anything demonstrates the impact of peacetime decision making on military organisation compared to the impetus of war, it is the US production effort before and after its entry into the war. Only war could refine the US war machine to what it became. Peacetime politics certainly wasn't gonna do it, regardless of orders of B-24s and B-25s before the country's entry into the war. Had WW2 not happened, these aircrafts' future and the overall decisions made about the future of the USAAC could have been very different to how they panned out.

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

Some slightly different dates and 1 more B-18.

82 B-18 serials 36-262/343 contract AC-8307 dated 19-Feb-36
16 B-18 serials 36-431/446 contract AC-8307 SA 1 dated 30-Jun-36
34 B-18 serials 37-1/34 contract AC-8307 SA 1 dated 30-Jun-36
1 B-18 serial 37-51 contract AC-8307 SA 3 dated 8-Sep-36
177 B-18A serials 37-458/634 contract AC-9977 dated 23-Jun-37
25 B-18A serials 38-585/609 contract AC-9977 SA 2 dated 30-Jun-38
15 RB-18A serials 39-12/26 contract AC-9977 SA 2 dated 30-Jun-38

38 RB-23 serials 39-27/64 contract AC-9977 SA 2 dated 30-Jun-38

Interesting split in funds for AC-8307 SA 1 and AC-9977 SA 2.

1 B-18 in October 1936, then production May 1937 to June 1938, B-18A production May 1938 to February 1940. Final 5 B-18A accepted January and February 1940. The Canadian order for 20 DB-280 Digby, 2 in December 1939, 17 January to March 1940. 1 B-23 in October 1939, 1 more in February 1940, remaining 36 from April to September 1940.

Martin ended B-10B production in August 1936 but managed to built another 190 model 139 or 166 for export 1936 to 1939. Martin Maryland production probably began in September 1939 with 142 built by the end of the year, Douglas DB-7 production probably began in October 1939 with 29 built by the end of the year. Lockheed Hudson production probably began in January 1939, with 287 built to end December.

Not counting the B-10 there were 480 Army type light bombers built in 1939 of which 458 listed above were for export, plus 13 Lockheed 212 (10 NEI, 1 Mexico), total 471, the USAAF had to be content with 7 YA-19, 1 XA-21 and 1 XA-22, as follow on for the 29 A-17A it received in 1938. While the heavier bomber types were 1 XB-15 and 134 B-18 in 1938, 25 B-17, 154 B-18, 1 XB-23 and 1 B-23 in 1939.

August to December 1939 US production of Army fighters total 13, including 11 YP-37, the XP-38 and the XP-39, the USN fighter production was ahead, 15 F2A-1 and 1 XF4F, total 16, of which 6 F2A-1 were for Finland.