Why no Fw 190H but the Ta 152H?

[tomo pauk]

To further this, there were 3 companies, not 3 factories.

Jumo was probably the 1st among the 'mainstream' German aero engines' companies to introduce a 'proper', pressure oil feed via the crankshaft, with DB following suit years later. BMW was tackling that issue by some time 1940-41.
BMW was the 1st to chrome-plate the valves, again DB following suit about a full year later.

Wholesale cancellation (that 'deleting' the development in company actually is) might mean the other companies don't get the benefits of cross-pollination, as imperfect it already was in Germany. Having company A just as another source, without a competing engine, means that company B grows complacent, too, even during the war.

tl;dr - making the things simple is okay, but making them too simple can make the things even worse

 

[z42]

To expand on that.
time to "take out" a manufacturer is before the shooting starts.
Once the shooting starts (or at least by 1941) it is too late for the Germans. Trying to retool either V-12 company to make radials or retool BMW to make V-12s is going to mean months of lost production. How long before the 'increased efficiency" of higher mass production catches up to the lost production from the change over?

Oh, absolutely. Perhaps I wasn't clear about that. If you want to get rid of BMW, say, the RLM probably have to tell them in 1935 instead of funding development of what eventually became the 801 that they should concentrate on building the 132 as a second-tier engine, and then focus R&D on jets.

Big changes in the middle of the war is a recipe for disaster.

To further this, there were 3 companies, not 3 factories. BMWs and Jumos were built in France and Jumos were built in Czechoslovakia.

Of course. But setting up a new factory is less effort than developing a new engine, and then building a factory to produce said engine.

In 1941-42 the BMW can do things the DB 601-605 and Jumo 211s cannot do, means you need to get the DB 603/Jumo 213 into production sooner.

If we take Tomo's suggestion of a slightly lighter-weight FW190 with a DB 601 (and slightly later a 605, presumably) instead of the historical FW 190A, then we don't need the 801.

And the best is the enemy of good. With limited high octane fuel perhaps more attention should have been paid to inter-cooling/after cooling on existing engines for a modest improvement in performance instead of the using tricks like nitrous oxide, which did give great performance but at the cost of weight/volume and logistics/servicing.

Jumo was probably the 1st among the 'mainstream' German aero engines' companies to introduce a 'proper', pressure oil feed via the crankshaft, with DB following suit years later. BMW was tackling that issue by some time 1940-41.

IIRC from Calum Douglas book, the 213 (forget if it was only the J or all models) had very efficient cooling channels for the head and valve guides, which probably were helpful for avoiding detonation.

BMW was the 1st to chrome-plate the valves, again DB following suit about a full year later.

Probably because the 801, being air-cooled, ran hotter and thus ran into the valve material issues more severely than the liquid cooled ones?

Wholesale cancellation (that 'deleting' the development in company actually is) might mean the other companies don't get the benefits of cross-pollination, as imperfect it already was in Germany. Having company A just as another source, without a competing engine, means that company B grows complacent, too, even during the war.

tl;dr - making the things simple is okay, but making them too simple can make the things even worse

Yes, you absolutely want to avoid a monopoly. But in an industry with high R&D costs and economies of scale, a duopoly is a sort-of stable equilibrium. The UK had RR and Bristol (with Napier tagging along as a sort of third wheel), the US had Wright and P&W in radials, and Allison vs. RR/Packard in inlines (Though the US had the scale that they could afford lots of efforts going in almost every direction).

 

[tomo pauk]

IIRC from Calum Douglas book, the 213 (forget if it was only the J or all models) had very efficient cooling channels for the head and valve guides, which probably were helpful for avoiding detonation.

IIRC already the 211 have had the cooling channels for the exhaust valves.

 

[Just Schmidt]

IIRC already the 211 have had the cooling channels for the exhaust valves.

I sometimes wonder, was the jumo 211 really that much worse an engine than the DB 601? And if so, in what way?

 

[tomo pauk]

I sometimes wonder, was the jumo 211 really that much worse an engine than the DB 601? And if so, in what way?

Difference was not that huge, but was noticeable. Eg. the Jumo 211A was much later than the DB 600s that powered a lot of He 111s, and was even a few months later than the DB 601A. The 601 strikes me as being with the slight (talk ~10%) better power at altitude when we compare the versions available in a month of the war we choose to take a look. 211 was a bit better wrt. the take-off power as the war progressed, while the 601 morphed into the 605.
The ultimate 211s, like the R (roughly equivalent of the de-rated 605A wrt. the altitude power, but way too late) and Q (turbocharged version) seems like that never flew operationally.
Jumo (company) was many times reluctant to rate the 211s for the 'Notleistung' power setting - that is understandable if the engine is on the bomber, but that is major point on a fighter, like the night-fighter Ju 88s. Seesm like that it was Fw - that was mostly basing their performance calculations (and tests, as one might expect) of the Ta 154 - was the true believer in the higher power settings of the 211s, but, since the Ta 154 ended us as a footnote in the ww2, I'm not sure how well the 211s were suited for that.