1938: The Best Fighter.

[fastmongrel]

The a6m zero did not enter production until 1939. but nothing could outturn a zero

I give up this guys either a complete noodle or is a troll

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The a6m zero did not enter production until 1939. but nothing could outturn a zero

Hmmmm........ You base that on???? At what speeds???

Here's a "tickler" for you.

"Japanese pilots were trained to engage enemies in slow speed dogfights. Above 275 mph the Zero's excellent handling diminished, making tight high speed turns nearly impossible. The Zero's maximum safe dive speed was 350 mph. Above that speed the fighter lost the ability to roll and the skin on the wings would begin to wrinkle. It the pilot pushed harder the Zero might shed its wings.
The Zeke's roll rate at any speed was slower then all U.S. fighters of WW II. A plane's roll rate is important because all acrobatic maneuvers with the exception of the loop start with a roll. If a P-40 latched onto the tail of a Zeke and the Zeke banked to turn away, a quick reacting pilot could roll his Warhawk inside his target. For a brief period the unfortunate Zero would be under his guns and fly right through his line of fire."

P-40 and Zero

So let's hear you're perspective on this....

 

[tyrodtom]

The first Zero didn't even fly, the A6M1, until April 39, the first production A6M2 until Jan. 40. So it's out of any decussion about fighters in 1938.

 

[krieghund]

If war had come in 1938 which fighter was the best. To make the debate short and sweet make the time under discussion September 1938 when the Munich agreement was discussed.

Many people at the time genuinely believed war would be the result of Hitlers demands for the Sudetenland. So on the 1st of septemeber 1938 which was the best fighter in full service no prototypes or being built but not yet service ready.

Can we make this about the best design in 1938?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The a6m zero did not enter production until 1939. but nothing could outturn a zero

1938

1938

1938

1938

And again...

1938

 

[fastmongrel]

Can we make this about the best design in 1938?

Problem with discussing designs is how do you set the discussion parameters. Most mid to late war aircraft had there design genesis in 1938 so it will end up being a discussion of best late war fighter which has surely been beaten to death recently. Barnes Wallis of Dambusters fame was designing 6 engine stratospheric inter continental bombers in 1938, Heinkel were designing a jet aircraft in 1938, they may only have been paper planes at the time but it shows how people were thinking.

 

[fastmongrel]

1938

1938

1938

1938

And again...

1938

The Me262 would have kicked ass in the BoB

 

[fastmongrel]

Sorry couldnt resist 8)

 

[Glider]

I wuld have to go with the Hurricane in Sept 1938. The first production Spit wasn't produced until mid 1938, so it wouldn't have made squadron service. Me109E wasn't until after Sept 1938.

This would leave in my books the Ms406 and the Hurricane, of the two I would go for the Hurricane.

 

[Shortround6]

The Ms406 didn't go into production until Jan 1939 according to some sources.

 

[Readie]

I wuld have to go with the Hurricane in Sept 1938. The first production Spit wasn't produced until mid 1938, so it wouldn't have made squadron service. Me109E wasn't until after Sept 1938.

This would leave in my books the Ms406 and the Hurricane, of the two I would go for the Hurricane.

I agree Glider. The Hurricane has it in 1938.
John

 

[davebender]

Keep in mind those would be early model Hurricanes not those in service two years later. I don't think they had constant pitch props or armor. Nor did they have the carburator fix which allowed inverted flight. I wouldn't be surprised if they still had technical glitches such as ammunition feed problems.

The I-16 was an older design but it was fully operational and combat proven (in Spain). During 1938 I would trust it before I would trust the newly introduced Hurricane.

 

[tomo pauk]

Wonder how P-36 stacks up vs. Hurricane in 1938 (fixed pitch prop, no 100 oct yet)?

 

[Vincenzo]

afaik the P-36 was not take because was too late too few not for the performances

 

[Glider]

Keep in mind those would be early model Hurricanes not those in service two years later. I don't think they had constant pitch props or armor. Nor did they have the carburator fix which allowed inverted flight. I wouldn't be surprised if they still had technical glitches such as ammunition feed problems.

The I-16 was an older design but it was fully operational and combat proven (in Spain). During 1938 I would trust it before I would trust the newly introduced Hurricane.

Good points but I don't think anyone apart from the French had armour in 1938 and I am pretty sure no one had 100 octane either.

The 1936 test of the Mk 1 Hurricane with two blade prop boost at 6lb, had a max speed of 314mph and reached 30,000 ft in 18.1 mins which for 1938 is pretty good. 8 x LMG in 1938 is pretty exceptional as well and any aircraft hit with this without armour would be in serious difficulty.

Full details Hurricane K-5083 Trials Report

The Rata is a good alternative but I think the 1938 version only had a 700 hp engine with a max speed of around 285mph but admit to not knowing a huge amount about this aircraft and am more than happy to be corrected.

 

[davebender]

The I-16 had an armored backrest.

Hurricane Mk I wings were still fabric covered. Why did they switch to aluminum wings for later versions?

 

[Juha]

I-16 Tip 10 had 4 7,62mm ShKAS mgs, which combined rof 7200rpm, fairly impressive, armoured seat, 750hp M-25B engine, max speed 448km/h, time to 5000m 6.7min
Ki-27b, no armour, 2 Type 89mgs, 780hp Nakajima Ha-Ib engine, max speed 468km/h, 5.3min to 5000m, extremely manoeuvrable.

Juha

 

[MikeGazdik]

I with the Hawker Hurricane.

 

[davebender]

There's more then one type of maneuverability. Like the Fw-190, the I-16 had an excellent rate of roll.

 

[andy2012]

What about the Polish PZL P.11. I would day it is in a similar league as the I-16?