GregP
Major
Jenisch, you are assuming I made a mistake. I didn't mention 1939 - 1941 at all, you did. If you want to discuss 1939 - 1940, say so, Don't assume everyone else doesn't know about it, we do. You'll do better if you refrain from using the phrase "Bourgeois Falsifiers." Calling people names never changes the facts.
So the Luftwaffe lost 3,000 aircraft in in 1939 - 1940. They built 27,000 Me-109's alone from 1941 - 1945. I think that more than replaces the losses, and that is just for Me-109's, never mind other aircraft. The Germans were beaten by being out-produced as Shortround has rlated above, combined with a two-front war against enemies who wouldn't roll over and quit.
In the Battle of Britain, the British lost 1065 aircraft (mostly fighters). The Germans lost 1922 (879 fighters, 80 Stukas, and 881 bombers). So what? They MORE than repalced tham.
German aircraft losses were down at 6.1 losses per 1000 sorties in France in 1940. They were at 9.6 in Britain in 1940, and 36.1 In pre-D-Day 1944. After D-Day, German losses shot up to 110.6 per 1000 sorties.
Allied losses per 1000 sorties were at 58.5 in France in 1940, 29.5 in Britian in 1940, 29.3 pre-D-Day 1944, and dropped to just 2.5 per 100 sorties post-D-Day 1944.
If those numbers don't tell a story, NOTHING does, and it has nothing to do with the Bourgeois. You can quibble over a few numbers more or less, but they are generlly in the agreed ballpark, so the story is plain, at least to me.
If we had better Sovoet data, we could compare. We already know the Soviet air losses were staggering early in the war, but they eventually got a point where german fighters simply could not live in a Soviet sky in late 1945 - 1945. So the Soviets MUST have learned a thing or two about air combat, huh?
We ALL made mistakes, Allied and Axis, but the outcome won't change, regarless of who tells the story, unless they depart from fact and get into fiction.
There are many great stories of WWII, on all fronts, and there is nobody who is an expert at all of them. Not all Axis soldiers were bad (there was a big difference between a Nazi SS Storm Trooper and German soldier, ideology-wise anyway) and not all Allied soldiers were good. There were heros and villains from every side and from every service, including civilians.
So the Luftwaffe lost 3,000 aircraft in in 1939 - 1940. They built 27,000 Me-109's alone from 1941 - 1945. I think that more than replaces the losses, and that is just for Me-109's, never mind other aircraft. The Germans were beaten by being out-produced as Shortround has rlated above, combined with a two-front war against enemies who wouldn't roll over and quit.
In the Battle of Britain, the British lost 1065 aircraft (mostly fighters). The Germans lost 1922 (879 fighters, 80 Stukas, and 881 bombers). So what? They MORE than repalced tham.
German aircraft losses were down at 6.1 losses per 1000 sorties in France in 1940. They were at 9.6 in Britain in 1940, and 36.1 In pre-D-Day 1944. After D-Day, German losses shot up to 110.6 per 1000 sorties.
Allied losses per 1000 sorties were at 58.5 in France in 1940, 29.5 in Britian in 1940, 29.3 pre-D-Day 1944, and dropped to just 2.5 per 100 sorties post-D-Day 1944.
If those numbers don't tell a story, NOTHING does, and it has nothing to do with the Bourgeois. You can quibble over a few numbers more or less, but they are generlly in the agreed ballpark, so the story is plain, at least to me.
If we had better Sovoet data, we could compare. We already know the Soviet air losses were staggering early in the war, but they eventually got a point where german fighters simply could not live in a Soviet sky in late 1945 - 1945. So the Soviets MUST have learned a thing or two about air combat, huh?
We ALL made mistakes, Allied and Axis, but the outcome won't change, regarless of who tells the story, unless they depart from fact and get into fiction.
There are many great stories of WWII, on all fronts, and there is nobody who is an expert at all of them. Not all Axis soldiers were bad (there was a big difference between a Nazi SS Storm Trooper and German soldier, ideology-wise anyway) and not all Allied soldiers were good. There were heros and villains from every side and from every service, including civilians.