Vichy July 1940 markings?

[ChrisPL]

Hello, could you guys help me with my concern?

I am thinking of "what-if" Vichy AF taking part in Battle of Britain.
What was the marking of Vichy planes in August/November 1940? Was it yellow engine cowling and rudder fin, or the white arrrow on the side of fuselage? Googling is not sufficient.

Thank You in advance!

P.S. IMVHO it should have been yellow front and back, common with Luftwaffe and Italian markings, but it`s just assumption.

 

[Wurger]

The Vichi markings at the requested period of time was the French roundel with the white ring around and actually not the arrow but the white strip on the fuselage side. The stripe became the arrow soon. Therefore you may find picures both with the strip or the arrow marking. A note though .. the strip wasn't going fully along the fuselage initially. And that's the reason for the arrow being either shorther or longer. The yellow tail and nose were introduced late in 1941.
As memo serves , initially the LW planes during the BoB had the wing and tail tips painted yellow only . The yellow painted engine cowling was introduced later in 1940. But if the Vichy Armée de l'Air would participate in the BoB , the using of the similar to the LW quick ID markings would be very likely. It is very possible becuse the Vichi yellow tails and later the engine cowlings were caused by mistaken downing of the French planes. As a result the yellow "nose" for the Vichi aircraft could be introduced earlier for instance.

Here the basic Vichi markings on the Curtiss Hawk H-75 in 1940 .

Here the Vichi markings on the D.520

 

[special ed]

I suspect there would have been considerable battle confusion with some acft on both sides using similar roundels.

 

[swampyankee]

One does wonder how many of the pilots of the Armée de l'Air would aggressively fight along side of their recent conquerors. I think that the answer to that question is "very few." While the French colonial units did fight against the Allies during Operation Torch, this was in response to a direct attack by the Commonwealth and US forces against their positions. While many of the proponents of Vichy were pro-nazi (and there were certainly right-wing political groups within France that were supportive of the mass murder of Jews and other minorities and political opponents), I believe most were much more pro-Church than were the nazis. Also, I don't think that many on the French right viewed the nazis to be anything other than a tool to suppress the left, as was the case after the Franco-Prussian War.

 

[ChrisPL]

One does wonder how many of the pilots of the Armée de l'Air would aggressively fight along side of their recent conquerors. I think that the answer to that question is "very few." While the French colonial units did fight against the Allies during Operation Torch, this was in response to a direct attack by the Commonwealth and US forces against their positions. While many of the proponents of Vichy were pro-nazi (and there were certainly right-wing political groups within France that were supportive of the mass murder of Jews and other minorities and political opponents), I believe most were much more pro-Church than were the nazis. Also, I don't think that many on the French right viewed the nazis to be anything other than a tool to suppress the left, as was the case after the Franco-Prussian War.

There is a mention in a book "BoB 1940" (one of many of very popular in Poland series "Historic Battles", 200 tittles at the moment), that Rene Fonck (said as a friend of Big Hermann) collected some 200 pilots wanting to avenge Mers-el-Kebir. Hitler did not allow French pilots to join the fight, though, because theirs effort could have used by Petain (or Laval) to change the status of Vichy.

Wurger: wielkie dzięki Great job, as I could not find the exact data. So, when Vichy started to paint cowlings and fins yellow? Some winter 1940/1941, or spring 1941?

 

[Wurger]

IIRC the yellow for the aircraft fins was started to be used when the l'Armée de l'Air squadrons were moved to French colonies in the North Africa for Syrian campaign. It was in the April/ May of the 1941. So in the Spring. The yellow painted engine cowls and the red strips on them appeared later. About the June-August or so because the ID marking can be noticed in pictures dated on Autumn 1941 and later.

the source below ...

Parę fajnych fotek znajdziesz tutaj ...

DEWOITINE D.520 - GC III/6 (3/6)

GROUPE DE CHASSE GC III/6 (3/6) - Campagne du Levant : Syrie et Liban 1941

 

[ChrisPL]

Thank You veeery much, Wurger! Wiszę Ci browca

 

[Wurger]

You'r welcome.

Nie ma sprawy.