**** DONE: 1/72 Lancaster Mk.III - Heavy Hitters II GB

[N4521U]

I've PM'd Terry regarding the nav lights on the wing tips. I've been confused by unclear photos of types and configuration of the housings. I'm posting this comp of some of the things I have found just to clear things up and to correct what is on the kit.

The kit has the three tubes toward the rear, as well as an option of a clear glass housing to replace these, and a clear glass housing on the front of the wing tip, which is larger.

There is also a builder who used the clear front glass, and three bulbs of red and green, P/S. I am just wondering if the three tubes were replaced by the clear glass and a single lamp at some point in the Mk series. Can't find anything really definitive. Hope Terry can sort it out with the info he's got.

Bill

 

[Airframes]

OK, as mentioned in my e-mail, the three tubes housed the rear-facing formation/signalling lamps. Now, I've been unable to ascertain exactly when these were fitted, and/or, when they were deleted, if they were in fact deleted. I believe they were early equipment. later replaced.
It's difficult to be able to spot these on period photos, and I do know they 'fell out of favour' at some point, having also been used on other night-flying types, including the Beau and Mossie. They were only used , as far as I know, for specific I.D. purposes, and could be left on accidentally, without any of the crew in view of the trailing edge being able to see them - which could cause dire problems of course.
In those photos where just the forward, clear-covered lamp is shown, I think the three formation 'tube' lamps, the name of which still escapes me, were mounted, but again, they might have been replaced by a 'solid' fairing, as shown in one of the photos you've posted.
If a photo shows forward and aft (wing tip) clear covers, then I presume the 'tubes' were omitted.
Whether three bulbs were fitted to each nav lamp, I don't really know and, going off memory, I can only remember one per side on the BBMF Lanc. Of course, Canadian and British production might also be different.
The factory drawing I have (in the SAM guide) shows the three tubes and the forward nav lamps, and personally, I would mount these, using stretched sprue, and the forward clear covers.( the chances of making the deeply-recessed lamps themselves, in this scale, is virtually impossible, as they were only about an inch or so in diameter, maybe slightly larger, within the tube, and a few inches within at that!)
Alternatively, omit these, and mount only the forward clear covers. The only way anyone could criticise is if they had a detailed photo of the actual aircraft, or had served on it!
I can possibly obtain a proper answer, from the Avro Heritage Centre personnel, as I know one of them, via my mate Mick, but, if he's able to find out, it could take some time, as since the (now BAe) factory closed at Woodford, near me, the guys are only there now and then.
I'll admit, on the Lanc models I've built in the past, including 1/48th scale, I haven't included the tubes.
EDIT: Just re-read your post, and see that the kit includes the 'tubes'. In that case leave then in place, and just use the clear, forward Nav lamps each side, rather than making new tubes from sprue.

 

[Airframes]

Just done a bit more digging re my last post.
From what I can determine, early production Lancs had the clear nav lamp covers at both front and rear of the wing tip, later replaced by clear front, and three tubes rear, and later still by front clear only.
This means that any of the combinations of these could be right for a specific time period, given, for example, that an 'early' Lanc survived long enough to see all modifications fitted, if indeed they were fitted to all aircraft in service.
I'm guessing that this would be due to the progressive introduction of various identification aids, negating the need for visual signals.
The twin infra red lamp housings, in the bomb aimer's blister, are an example of this. These were intended to identify a 'friendly' aircraft to a rear turret equipped with AGLS, a late addition in late summer 1944, and quite a number of aircraft had only the circular mountings installed in the Perspex blister, but not the IR lamps or power connections, as AGLS was delayed, both in production and use, with many squadrons not even having it fitted by war's end. This, and other electronic aids, made the formation lamps, a risk in themselves, redundant.
Other similar anomalies include the bomb aimer's blister itself - later aircraft had an enlarged blister, and some production runs also had a different shaped lower window. The enlarged blister was often retro-fitted, the famous 'S for Sugar', now in the RAF Museum, being an example. But it was still possible to see Lancs with the original blister right up to late in the war, if they survived that long.

 

[Crimea_River]

Nanton's Lanc is a Canadian-built Mk.X and arrived in England just as the war ended, so a late production. Here's a picture of it's port wingtip.

The red navigation light might have been a later modification as this aircraft did post was service in various guises.

 

[Airframes]

Good stuff Andy. I think you're right about the red nav lamp, which was probably a requirement of post-war regulations, to make it more visible; wartime Lancs had the clear cover faired-in as part of the wing tip.
Been looking further, and found pics of various periods with and without the triple tubes, with and without the rear, glazed lamps, but predominantly without from Lancs built after around mid 1943.
As mentioned in my earlier post, i reckon go with the triple tubes and forward glazed lamps, especially as the tubes are moulded in place.

 

[N4521U]

Good stuff Andy. I think you're right about the red nav lamp, which was probably a requirement of post-war regulations, to make it more visible; wartime Lancs had the clear cover faired-in as part of the wing tip.
Been looking further, and found pics of various periods with and without the triple tubes, with and without the rear, glazed lamps, but predominantly without from Lancs built after around mid 1943.
As mentioned in my earlier post, i reckon go with the triple tubes and forward glazed lamps, especially as the tubes are (were) moulded in place.

Thanks again to everyone.

Okay, I have found the ops EE143 was included in were from Jan '44 till it's last mission May '44 when it was lost. So I am going to go with it being manufactured late '43 and this would be with the glass covers fore and aft. This is since I had lost my mind and removed the three tube lights from the wing and cut in for the glass before the discussion. Duh............... I will also go with the single red/green lamp fore, and a fitted cover aft.

The bit about forgetting, or not being able to See the lights by the crew in-flight would be enough for me to cut the buggers off my ownself if I was crew.

Can't fault the amount of information that has come from this....... keee-rikey, a lot of reading to ingest. But now we all know.

 

[fubar57]

Good call, Bill and great info Terry and Andy.

Geo

 

[N4521U]

Well only two more building days till they put my shoulder out of commission. So I got the first color on this evening and with any luck I'll paint the green tamarra!

I will beyond any doubt Not finish before Thursday, but when I can move may arm in another six weeks I should have easy stuff to do!

I sailor on.

 

[Lucky13]

Looks great Bill!

On a small sidenote, the first Avro Lancaster lost in combat (on operations, as it says in my book), was an aircraft from No. 44 (Rhodesia) Squadron, the squadron of my future 1/48 Y for Yorker Lancaster. Pilot was Flight Sergeant L. Warren-Smith, a South African, he and all of his NCO crew - 4 Englishmen, 2 Rhodesians, 1 Australian, were killed...

 

[N4521U]

If they were to put a name to the plane it shoulda been "League of Nations"....... I'll have to look that one up, sounds like an interesting build Jan. Be great to see you do it.

 

[Airframes]

Glad to help Bill, and good to know which way you're going.
I've done even more digging, and found the following;
Your aircraft, EE143, was one of a batch of 620 Lancasters built at the Chadderton factory, between November 1942 and June 1943, in serial number range ED303 to EE202 (the same batch the Dambuster Lancs came from), with 129 airframes being B.Mk1, the remainder as B.MkIII (including EE143). Records show delivery (or at least allocation) to 467 Sqn as 31st May 1943, and lost on ops (Missing) to Lille, 10/11 May 1944.
Those photos I've found showing aircraft from this serial range all have just the forward nav lamp clear covers, the rear being fared in and painted.
Hope this helps.

 

[N4521U]

Egggggsellent.

I am guessing then what I found was only the ops in 467 Sqdn as PO*J.
2nd color later today as the weather will be relatively warm and sunny. Will do some laundry as well. One of the perks of being retired I guess.

 

[Wurger]

 

[Airframes]

Yes, there's a possibility she wore more than one code letter when with 467 sqn. Unfortunately, I haven't got records of her total ops, but she lasted a long time - nearly a year- compared to average lifespan. That is, of course, if the info I have is correct (on Squadron from 31st May 1943), and I have no reason to doubt it.
One point to check - given the date of the loss, it's unlikely that the yellow outlined codes were worn, or the individual code letter on the fins, but I'll see if I can find anything further on this. From memory, I think these were only applied in late 1944, for daylight ops.

 

[N4521U]

Yep, you did bring this up early on. That the plane was lost before the night ops yellow o'line was applied and I do have the red decals for her now, and no tail code. Just the flash inside and out on the tail. I'm anxious to put the coding onner.

Just today and tomorrow to get some stuff done, then it's pain killers for a while. I may get the gear onner as well. Then it's just the glass framework. First trying Vic's method with the thin foil.

With two months left in the GB when I come off the sling, I may try and do the Blenheim! Fingers crossed.

 

[N4521U]

Color is on........ I can relax.

 

[Airframes]

Nice work Bill! And I can confirm, for the period in question, it was just plain Dull Red code letters, and no individual letter on the fins.

 

[rochie]

looks great Bill

 

[Vic Balshaw]

That is smart Bill.

 

[Wayne Little]

Good on ya Bill!