DO-335 VS TA-152

[Marshall_Stack]

Originally Posted by lesofprimus

Clostermann was an as*hole and a fraud, fu*k him....

I have his book and he doesn't seem to come across as "one". What gives you this notion...?

[lesofprimus]

Meeting and talking and listening to his fellow pilots... Many of Clostermanns kills are made up bullshit, and I for one take 50% of what he's about with a large spoonful of salt....

And I have read his book as well....

[Soren]

Perhaps his fellow pilots don't like him because he doesn't always speak to friendly about the Spitfire.

[lesofprimus]

To some extent Im sure Soren....

[comiso90]

Originally Posted by Soren

Perhaps his fellow pilots don't like him because he doesn't always speak to friendly about the Spitfire.

I suppose if u try really hard, u can disparage the spitfire in nominal ways...

but what were his prime complaints?

[The Basket]

The Do 335 was nowhere near ready in 1945 anyway. But in theory it would have been a top bomber destroyer. But new allied fighters matched its much vaunted speed anyway and then it was a turkey in a dog fight.

[Marshall_Stack]

Originally Posted by The Basket

The Do 335 was nowhere near ready in 1945 anyway. But in theory it would have been a top bomber destroyer. But new allied fighters matched its much vaunted speed anyway and then it was a turkey in a dog fight.

That is why I think it would have been better for fast reconnaissance...

[Parmigiano]

In my opinion the 335 was the top achievement of the twin engined PROP 'heavy fighter' concept.
Her problem was that the new jest age made her already obsolete, like all the last generation prop planes.

It had a speed advantage on the contemporary prop fighters, MAYBE would have kept this advantage with further development (if the new prop Allied fighter were faster than the 1945 models, the 335 had her whole potential to develop too) but could have never kept the pace with the jets.

Same for the Ta152, with the difference that it was the last refinement of an existing project rather than the first of a new concept: had the war continued, most likely the 152 could have been more effective than the 335 in the 6-12 months before the jets take over because it was already 'debugged' and combat ready.
By the time the 335 could be 100% combat ready, Meteor and P80 would have been available and the Germans (of course) would have had jet options far superior than te 335.

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Parmigiano

In my opinion the 335 was the top achievement of the twin engined PROP 'heavy fighter' concept.
Her problem was that the new jest age made her already obsolete, like all the last generation prop planes.

It had a speed advantage on the contemporary prop fighters, MAYBE would have kept this advantage with further development (if the new prop Allied fighter were faster than the 1945 models, the 335 had her whole potential to develop too) but could have never kept the pace with the jets.

Same for the Ta152, with the difference that it was the last refinement of an existing project rather than the first of a new concept: had the war continued, most likely the 152 could have been more effective than the 335 in the 6-12 months before the jets take over because it was already 'debugged' and combat ready.
By the time the 335 could be 100% combat ready, Meteor and P80 would have been available and the Germans (of course) would have had jet options far superior than te 335.

IMHO - when you compare performance with respect to ceiling, top speed, dive, turn, climb and acceleration with the top FIGHTER designs in early 1945.. you are looking at the Tempests, the Fw190D's, the Ta152s, the Spits, the La7s, 51H, P-47N, P38L etc- they were ALL bumping limitations to a.) aerodynamics, b.) basic design parameters such as wing loading, weights, wing design, etc and c.) engine performance at a Thrust to Weight and high altitutde capabilities.

While I woul have a hard time arguing against the Ta152 as the 'best' in many categories - in my opinion, in the hands of excellent fighter pilots with experience and skill fighting each other there would not be that much to choose from given that the skill of the pilots kept the engagement out of the arena of least performance.. in other words don't fight an Fw190A7 with a 51D on the deck - or attempt to engage a Ta152 at 36,000 feet with a Tempest.

The 47J/N, the 51H and future M, the Ta152, the Fw190D-13, the F-8F, the Spits were all bumping limitations due to critical Mach, prop performance, engine aspiration etc. so none was going to achieve a great performance leap over the others from mid 1945 forward...

[SoD Stitch]

Originally Posted by Parmigiano

In my opinion the 335 was the top achievement of the twin engined PROP 'heavy fighter' concept.
Her problem was that the new jest age made her already obsolete, like all the last generation prop planes.

It had a speed advantage on the contemporary prop fighters, MAYBE would have kept this advantage with further development (if the new prop Allied fighter were faster than the 1945 models, the 335 had her whole potential to develop too) but could have never kept the pace with the jets.

Same for the Ta152, with the difference that it was the last refinement of an existing project rather than the first of a new concept: had the war continued, most likely the 152 could have been more effective than the 335 in the 6-12 months before the jets take over because it was already 'debugged' and combat ready.
By the time the 335 could be 100% combat ready, Meteor and P80 would have been available and the Germans (of course) would have had jet options far superior than te 335.

You said it very well . . . however, in the last paragraph, you mentioned something I hadn't really ever thought about before: even assuming the War had continued another year or two, for all it's technical acheivements and performance potential, the -335 would have easily fallen prey to any of the jets. It would have been prey to even the "slowest" jets ("slow" being relative); the Meteor, which was the slowest of the first-generation jets, could have easily overtaken a Pfeil. So the -335 was basically obsolete before it even had a chance to become operational.

[merlin]

Al of the above shows that the Do-335, was an ingenious answer to the problems of a twin-engined fighter - but too late. It needed to be in Squadron service in '43 when it's range and firepower would have had a dramatic effect of Allied bomber formations.
Perhaps Dornier should have been charged with producing a Germanised Fokker D.XXIII, which could have evolved, and been in time!?

[The Basket]

Eric Brown flew Do 335s and he said they were plagued with teething faults.

Could have been fixed with time but they had no time.

Could have been a devastating nightfighter which is probably where it was going.

One of the clever German designs that did absolutely zip.

[Hollywood]

The Ta152H was the ultimate prop job for 1945 IMHO.... It became "second class" only because of the development of jet technology.

[Soren]

Hans Werner Lerche, test pilot of the Do-335, loved the a/c and mentions its excellent handling at all speeds, plus its great performance.

However that having been said, the Do-335 IMO while a great piston engined a/c, was unnecessary seeing that the LW already possessed a fighter with better capabilities. The Me-262 was allot faster than the Do-335 and carried the best armament for shooting down bombers.

As for the topic, well the Ta-152H-1 is the best by far.

[Erich]

the Do 335 was useless oversized piece of garbage, Clostermann never met one and the only time it flew was in the testing stage from one field to another or a flyby and turn around that is fact. the 262 and the tech advances in the jet industry made the Do 335 only a test piece for push, pull technology one reason why any further development was just dropped

I have a late war pic of 3-4 Do's just sitting on a field derilict and busted open by the Germans so they would not be captured totally intact

the Do and the Ta cannot even be fairly compared